For those who have had 12v Battery problems

[davejord]

Have 2013 Ford C-Max Hybrid with 13,000 miles and no hint of a problem until parked overnight in garage and completely dead about noon.  Ford service jumped battery and it appears to be OK but will see after another night.  Going to carry a jumper just in case from now on.  VERY DISAPPOINTED TO HAVE SUCH A MAJOR PROBLEM.

[davejord]

Mine died with doors unlocked.  If battery is dead and doors are locked, how does one open hood to jump the battery??????? 

[Bill-N]

Mine died with doors unlocked.  If battery is dead and doors are locked, how does one open hood to jump the battery??????? 

 

Use the key to unlock the drivers door.

Edited September 24, 2013 by Bill-N

[drdiesel1]

Have 2013 Ford C-Max Hybrid with 13,000 miles and no hint of a problem until parked overnight in garage and completely dead about noon.  Ford service jumped battery and it appears to be OK but will see after another night.  Going to carry a jumper just in case from now on.  VERY DISAPPOINTED TO HAVE SUCH A MAJOR PROBLEM.

Jumping a dead battery will not correct the problem. It will only make matters worse. You need to properly charge the 12V Battery with a micro processor controlled battery charger. I've found my 12V battery down to 50% SOC. I've charged it 3 times since buying it on Aug. 18th.  The charging system is not properly maintaining the battery. Most 12V batteries will remain around 75% to 85% on average. I was maintenance charging my non hybrid vehicles every 6 months to keep the batteries in good shape. I found I need to do this with my C-Max at least once a month or until, Ford changes the systems DC/DC charging functionality.

 

 This is the charger I've been using for all my auto/motorcycle stuff for the last few years. It's a great little charger for

a good price. It will handle battery charging without the need to monitor it. Set it up and let it go until the CHARGED lamp

comes on. It even has a desulfate mode. It will condition your battery and extend it's life. My wife's OE battery lasted 8 yrs.

using this little gem.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Schumacher-SSC-1500A-SpeedCharge-Charger-Battery/dp/B000H961YI

Edited September 24, 2013 by drdiesel1

[drdiesel1]

Mine died with doors unlocked.  If battery is dead and doors are locked, how does one open hood to jump the battery??????? 

Use the key that's stored in the key FOB to unlock the door and open the hood. You'll need to recharge the battery

or it will just happen again. See post #129

 

We have a huge thread on the Energi site about this.

Edited September 24, 2013 by drdiesel1

[hayesdt]

I had a dead battery after the car sat overnight in the garage back in May.  Roadside Assistance towed it to the dealer where TSB 13-4-13 (to correct the 4.2 Inch screen from drawing too much current from the 12V battery) was installed.  http://www.fordservicecontent.com/pubs/content/~WT/~MUS~LEN/3569/tsb13-04-13.pdf

 

No battery problems until this morning, when the battery was completely dead after the car had been sitting outside overnight.  Again I had Roadside Assistance tow it to the dealer, where the software was again updated (for the same screen problem causing excessive battery discharge) with an updated TSB, 13-7-10.  http://www.fordservicecontent.com/pubs/content/~WT/~MUS~LEN/3560/tsb13-07-10.pdf

 

My serviceman just called to let me know the software's been installed and the car and battery are now fine.  These seemingly simple software (how's that for alliteration?) updates, I might add, can be more complex and time-consuming that an iPhone operating system update!  In this case, according to the serviceman, it took 90 minutes for the software update TSB 13-7-10 to be installed. 

 

JUST CURIOUS, HAS ANYONE HAD MORE 12V BATTERY PROBLEMS AFTER HAVING TSB 13-7-10 INSTALLED?

 

As a final note, my wife has a C-Max too, and though she's had not battery problems (yet!), since her car was also built well before June of 2013, the Serviceman advised me to get the TSB installed on her car as well.

Edited October 2, 2013 by hayesdt

[drdiesel1]

I had a dead battery after the car sat overnight in the garage back in May.  Roadside Assistance towed it to the dealer where TSB 13-4-13 (to correct the 4.2 Inch screen from drawing too much current from the 12V battery).  http://www.fordservicecontent.com/pubs/content/~WT/~MUS~LEN/3569/tsb13-04-13.pdf

No battery problems until this morning, when the battery was completely dead after the car had been sitting outside overnight.  Again I had Roadside Assistance tow it to the dealer, where the software was again updated (for the same screen problem causing excessive battery discharge) with an updated TSB, 13-7-10.  http://www.fordservicecontent.com/pubs/content/~WT/~MUS~LEN/3560/tsb13-07-10.pdf

My serviceman just called to let me know the software's been installed and the car and battery are now fine.  These seemingly simple software (how's that for alliteration?) updates, I might add, can be more complex and time-consuming that an iPhone operating system update!  In this case, according to the serviceman, it took 90 minutes for the software update TSB 13-7-10 to be installed. 

 

JUST CURIOUS, HAS ANYONE HAD MORE 12V BATTERY PROBLEMS AFTER HAVING TSB 13-7-10 INSTALLED?

I would ask the dealer if they properly CHARGED the battery this time too :spend:

[Bill-N]

As a final note, my wife has a C-Max too, and though she's had not battery problems (yet!), since her car was also built well before June of 2013, the Serviceman advised me to get the TSB installed on her car as well.

 

Sounds like advantageous auspicious advice.

[jchaddpete]

How do I respond to the poll?  There seems not to be anything to click on in each section as a way of making a choice.  I've had repeated problems with a dead battery, the recent being a few days ago, so I'd like to complete the survey if someone tells me how to do it.  Thanks in advance.

[zhackwyatt]

How do I respond to the poll?  There seems not to be anything to click on in each section as a way of making a choice.  I've had repeated problems with a dead battery, the recent being a few days ago, so I'd like to complete the survey if someone tells me how to do it.  Thanks in advance.

There should be radio buttons next to each option and then a Vote! button.  You don't see that?

[AudenHoggart]

I just had a dead battery.  Hadn't used it for one day, and had no advance warning of any problems.  Roadside Assistance came and would have towed the car to the dealer but was able to jump start so I drove the few miles to the dealer.    Brought the dealer the notice of TSB 13-7-10.  It took overnight to get rid of the various error codes showing up and the dead center screen.  I just got it back and it seems fine, so far.

 

In follow-up to an earlier post, do we know if anyone has had recurrent dead battery problems after getting the TSB 13-7-10 software fix?

[drdiesel1]

After unplugging my iPod and my USB thumb drive, I have had good battery voltage readings after a 100% recharge.

 

Today's battery voltage reading was :flirt: 12.68 volts :happy feet:

[cmaxguy]

The first time my CMAX died was earlier in the summer - around June. After 6 days Ford concluded my battery was defective and replaced it. My CMAX does very strange things - the blue charging light will sometimes blink very rapidly right about the time it sends me a text about missing a scheduled charge due to an external fault. that's when I know bad things are happening. I was able to get my car plugged into a charger to avoid the car going dead & dropped it at the dealer - after they kept it for about a week they concluded there was nothing wrong. A few weeks later it died again and required a jump. The dealer kept it about a week again & replaced the battery again telling me there were "a lot of defective batteries from the (battery) manufacturer." The other issues I was experiencing: upon starting, the car would prompt me with "is the vehicle plugged in?" - which it wasn't. I have to use the cursor controls to select NO then I have to push the start button again to actually/ start the car. One time when it asked me if I was plugged in and I as soon as I answered the entire dash went black. I had to push start & repeat that process 5 times in order to start the car. The next morning it was dead in my driveway and required a jump again. It has been at the dealer for the past (coming up on) two weeks. I also am experiencing loud buzzing/resonating sounds that are loud enough to overwhelm the stereo system whenever in hybrid mode and the gas engine is charging the EV battery. This is an intermittent problem. The icing on the cake is that my car has never been able to hold washer fluid - it appears to splash all over the engine whenever I drive - I have to add about 1/2 - 3/4 gallon fluid PER WEEK. Needless to say I have stopped filling it. Ford is also unable to fix this issue. My Ford rep thinks my car qualifies for buy back but Ford seems to be dragging their feet. I am currently awaiting replacement parts - the dealer now thinks my blue ring and the module that controls it are defective although no one can tell me what tests have failed or why they think it is defective other than "it shouldn't blink like that"... After reading these forums it appears the CMAX line has major design problems and my issues aren't unique to my particular vehicle. I took the poll and I find the results very interesting in that there doesn't appear to be any particular manufacture date or trim level showing the problem... I've never loved and hated a car so much! Can anyone share their particulars of their buyback from Ford. I'm concerned about what I owe on my bank loan and what amount Ford will try to depreciate the vehicle and if they buy it back i will out a lot of money with no car to show for it. I'm not even going into the details of the 6-8 other dealer visits for various recalls, updates, orange wrench lights, etc. I will also add that the touch handles work like crap compared the various other ford rentals I have been driving - the taurus in particular has touch handles that work first time and respond instantly - I can't tell you how many times I pull on the dumb handle repeatedly with no response & have to pull the key fob out of my pocket & hit a button. The lift gate is also hit or miss and when it refuses to go up or down it is geared so tight it is really hard so muscle closed - which of course sometimes leaves with a lift gate ajar light on my dash. Seems to me Ford should be paying us to test the vehicle they failed to finish building....

 

I have an Energi with panoramic roof, push button start - 2nd highest trim level - basically everything except autopark.

[MNizlek]

This was/is a very good thread.  Appreciated the link to TSB10-7-13.  In my case, I now have 2 months experience with this TSB installed and have not had a recurrence of 12V system loss.  Hopeful this issue has been resolved...

[hayesdt]

"I had a dead battery after the car sat overnight in the garage back in May.  Roadside Assistance towed it to the dealer where TSB 13-4-13 (to correct the 4.2 Inch screen from drawing too much current from the 12V battery) was installed.  http://www.fordservicecontent.com/pubs/content/~WT/~MUS~LEN/3569/tsb13-04-13.pdf

 

No battery problems until this morning, when the battery was completely dead after the car had been sitting outside overnight.  Again I had Roadside Assistance tow it to the dealer, where the software was again updated (for the same screen problem causing excessive battery discharge) with an updated TSB, 13-7-10.  http://www.fordservicecontent.com/pubs/content/~WT/~MUS~LEN/3560/tsb13-07-10.pdf

 

My serviceman just called to let me know the software's been installed and the car and battery are now fine.  These seemingly simple software (how's that for alliteration?) updates, I might add, can be more complex and time-consuming that an iPhone operating system update!  In this case, according to the serviceman, it took 90 minutes for the software update TSB 13-7-10 to be installed. 

 

JUST CURIOUS, HAS ANYONE HAD MORE 12V BATTERY PROBLEMS AFTER HAVING TSB 13-7-10 INSTALLED?"

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Just as an update to my battery problem of October 2:  As noted above, my C-Max received the 13-7-10 software update on Oct. 2.  However, this morning (November 1), the battery was completely dead again and had to be towed (Roadside Assistance) to my local dealership again.  Will give another update as the situation develops. 

 

Edited November 1, 2013 by hayesdt

[Laurel]

Hayesdt that is very discouraging!  Sorry for all of your car troubles. 

[hayesdt]

Hanging in there as best I can with it.  I have to say that my dealer has been exemplary in trying to solve the problem, but they're stumped too.  The problem is that Ford Motor Company simply doesn't know for sure what the problem is!  The Service Manager at the dealer now believes that the previously installed 13-7-10 patch did not "take" (which is possible, I suppose), so this afternoon they have tried it again.  (When the patch was "installed in early October, the technician remembers it taking over two hours.  Today it only took several minutes.)  They also replaced the battery today, which they had not done before.  The car is now still at the dealer's, and they are going to retest it tomorrow morning to see if anything has drawn battery current overnight. 

 

We'll see how it goes tomorrow morning; since it's a weekend, and we have my wife's car and my trusty old Dodge Ram pickup for transportation, I may even ask them to keep it until Monday morning to see if it (the battery) somehow still has significant current drawn by something.  Three days sitting rather than merely one overnight might be more revealing about whether there's still a problem.

 

My wife also has a 2013 C Max she bought about two weeks before I bought mine, both purchased this past February.  She hasn't had any problems at all with her C Max.  With mine, I've had to date five electrical-related problems, three of which have required Roadside Assistance towing to my dealer:  1. A Check Engine light wouldn't go off (computer reset done).  2. Check Engine light that wouldn't go off a second time (part replaced and another computer reset done).  3. 12V battery dead, tow to dealer, first battery software patch installed;  4. 12V battery dead, tow to dealer, second battery software patch (13 7 10) installed, perhaps incorrectly (?!? just don't know yet).  and 5. 12V battery dead, tow to dealer, second installation of TSB 13 7 10 and battery replacement.

Edited November 2, 2013 by hayesdt

[wab]

Anyone think a Poll for people

who have

NOT

had 12V problems would be helpful/informative/interesting?

:detective: 

[drdiesel1]

The "patch" updates as you call it are actually calibration file updates. They are automated flash programs.  They are either installed or

they are not. There's no in-between or partial programming. Once the newest file is installed, it can't be installed again. The 2 hours

on the first update was probably due to multiple modules requiring updates.  Mine had 5 module updates the first time, I updated mine.

 

Sorry to hear about all theses issue's with your C-Max. Too bad the dealer isn't attempting to do a parasitic load test to find out what the actual amperage draw is. They could isolate and trace it to the fault by process of elimination. Good luck with it.

Edited November 2, 2013 by drdiesel1

[cmaxguy]

I was told that my CMAX Energi did not qualify for the mentioned update because I have the larger screen but they put the update on any way. I honestly believe Ford doesn't know. The answers I get are vague and not very dfinitive. The first 2 times my CMAX died they swore up and down they had defective batteries and the new battery would do the trick. This latest time they replaced the charging ring because when my battery would die I reported my charging ring was blinking rapidly - they seem to be just replacing parts in hopes something sticks. I hope they figure it out soon. I have other issues that are still unresolved and Ford doesn't seem to care. They don't realize what a gigantic hassle it is to take a vehicle to the dealer - let alone a brand new one. I will be scheduling my 13th dealer visit in 10 months. You would think we would be getting gift baskets for all the abuse we have taken for buying an obviously unfinished, untested vehicle.

[fotomoto]

Edit:  operator error.  No issues.  Vote deleted.

Edited February 3, 2014 by fotomoto

[salman]

The lights and all other accessories are supposed to power off after a short time period. The manual gives the time duration (my manual is in the shop with my disassembled dead C-Max). My memory is that is approximately a 10 minute shut off, maybe less.

 

It is possible that leaving the lights turned on added more draw on top of another draw, or on top of a battery that was not charged fully. On the battery threads you can find a number of hypotheses about what is going on, including the theory that the problem may partly be about a hypersenitive circuit that gets shut down (or won't turn on) when the battery is only modestly drained - that is, it could be a compound problem with battery not chargiing fully or getting drained, and also a ciruit or relay that is too sensitive to minor decreases in 12 volt battey power. Bottom line is that we do not know and Ford's engineers do not know.

 

Parasitic load tests: This is a test to see how much current is being drawn off a battery when all systems are shut down. If you read the battery threads you will see that this test has been performed many times on C-Maxs. I of course cannot say that every dealer has done a load test on every CmAx that has come in with a dead battery, but it has been done many times, and it has produced very few helpful results. Only a couple of cars, at most have shown a draw that was out of the ordinary (the computer system in the car draws a tiny amount of juice so there is always a tiny drain). The Ford Engineers have been focused on other possible causes (charging software, software that might reawaken systems at random times, water in electrical connectors, etc) that require other diagnostics because load tests have not been productive.

 

12 volt system problems have been plaguing the CMax for a year now. Ford has bought back at least a handful of cars that we know about on this forum (and there must be more). There have hundreds and probably thousands of dealer service visits for 12 volt problems. The warranty costs to Ford are quite substantial. The reputation cost for vehicle sales is substantial. There is abundant evidence that Ford engineers have been working on this problem diligently (evidence includes the TSBs and other advisories, direct contact with engineers reported by Mbedit and others, and we also know the engineers have taken apart and studied some of the buy back cars). Basically, the engineers designed systems problems that they cannot figure out.

 

That last point is ultimately what is troubling me the most about the C-Max. Here is why: beyond the headaches and troubles at this moment when my car has to go to the dealer an average of once a month and stay there for days, what happens when the warranty runs out? Mechanics at dealers are not always the best mechanics, but they do get more vehicle specific training than mechanics at other shops and they have direct access to Ford engineers for help. Watching the dependence of even good Ford mechanics on the Ford engineers for step by step advice on diagnosing problems, which still takes 2-5 days and also is not yet coming up with reliable fixes, I can only guess at what the repair costs will be for the C-Max after warranty. Not to mention rental replacement costs..

 

Of course I am only speaking now about C-Max's like the one I own: about a dozen visits to the shop totalling 35 days and running, multiple electrical problems of a serious nature, etc. Unfortunately there seem to be quite a few C-Max's with similar service histories.

[wab]

Where's a LAWYER when you need one?

I'm pretty sure that once a problem is documented it has a forever warranty till it's fixed.

 

 

Speaking of your car.

I bet there are a dozen engineers gathered around it right now going :happy feet:  :worship:  :yahoo:  :drool:  WE  FINNALY caught one in the act!

[drdiesel1]

A lab scope will watch the system up to 14 hours per screen.  I can set my lab scope to watch a car for 583 days, 24 hours a day.

 

Why can't the dealers do the same ? .............To cheap to have the proper tools :drop:

Edited November 3, 2013 by drdiesel1

[DaveofDurham]

A lab scope will watch the system up to 14 hours per screen. I can set my lab scope to watch a car for 583 days, 24 hours a day.

 

Why can't the dealers do the same ? .............To cheap to have the proper tools :drop:

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a "lab scope" and what can it monitor?