Battery dead

[salman]

So far it does not seem that Ford or any of its dealers have been able to learn anything significant by receiving a car with its battery dead, as opposed to receiving a car that was jumped and driven to the dealer. One caveat to that: Some dealers have taken the problem seriously only after having the dead car towed in while dead, but that was more of an issue 6-9 months ago. These days there are TSBs on record, so dealers would have to be sleazy or lazy or lame to tell an owner they can't see the problem (if you experience this switch dealers for service).

 

Nevertheless, except in emergencies when you have no time, I would recommend calling Ford's roadside assistance and having them tow the car, if you can spare the time, or jump it. That way Ford has a record of the problem and Ford pays for the roadside service (costs to Ford add incentive for them to solve the problem), and it also protects your warranty. I am not saying that using a charger violates the warranty, but I worry that someone at Ford might someday try to claim it does. If you can, play it safer by calling Ford roadside assistance.

 

Two dealers have given me free rental cars when my CMax was in their shop for battery issues. I think this is at the dealer's discretion, but I am not sure. 

[lumike]

Well, hope 3rd time is the charm.

Took my C-max in for it's 5K checkup.

 The service sheet says performed: B 13B07 PCM REPROGRAM and C 13C02 HEADLINER

 This was on 8/27/13

DOA in driveway on 9/1/13

Had it hauled to the dealer and the service record says: Performed updates on FCDIM and DC/DC inverter using IDS version 86.02A. They kept it overnight and detected no unusual drains.

 Had the TSB 13-4-7 done on Apr 22 and ran fine till the 5K service. I'm wondering if the update done then went and put the old info back in and caused the dead battery this time? Anyhow the dealer (I switched from the one in Thousand Oaks to Vista in Oxnard because of the positive comments from a couple of other posters) was much easier to work with. (the other one said I needed to switch to premium gas to get the mileage advertised. Right then I knew I was in trouble. And they tried to make me feel I was the cause of the problem)

So anyhow, keep this experience in mind if any are nearing the regular 5K maintenance.

Lumike

[Bob999]

So anyhow, keep this experience in mind if any are nearing the regular 5K maintenance.

Lumike

 Ford does not recommend a "regular 5K maintenance".  The Ford recommended maintenance interval is 10K or 1 year, which ever comes first.  However many dealers still aren't following Ford's recommendations--I suspect that at least one reason is they want the revenue from more frequent service.

[salsaguy]

this is a good theory since we know from electronic battery tech that on cameras, if you use rechargeable, if the voltage drops a bit slowly over time, the device fails to work, yet it's not completely discharged, just below the voltage required to be useable by the device. whereas on an alkaline better they hold the voltage constant longer but then usually go dead.

same thing here, the car needs xx.x volts to work but when water intrusion gets in the cable its shortting  it out, causing a voltage drop and drain on the battery till it's below the level needed to function as planned.

========== quoted text below ==============

 

 - hence the suspicion that the battery was not deeply depleted.

 

This theory could also help explain what seems to be multiple causes for our episodes: anything that reduces the battery voltage modestly (or moderately) could be enough to trigger a shutdown, even though the voltage reduction does not appear severe enough to show up as a traditionally dead depleted battery requiring a long recharge. Looked at this way, the core problem is the hyper-sensitive relay ( or other component) and the trigger events come in the form of anything that moderately depletes the battery (water in a connector, a phone link that stays on, etc).

Edited September 5, 2013 by salsaguy

[viajero]

If you have an Energi and are using MyFordMobile, you can go to the web site under My Account->Notifications and tell it to text and/or email you to warn of a low 12V battery.

[Linda]

Well bought my c-max three months ago and had my first dead battery this morning. Called the ford line and they sent someone out to jump it. I drove to work which happens to be a ford dealer and they did another update on it. They said the battery is fine so they didn't replace it. I talked to the master certified technician and he said they are seeing more cases of dead batteries. One guy had it happen four times so far. My girlfriend also bought a c-max and she has had a dead battery as well. They replaced her battery stating it was a bad battery. Apparently a software update was just released to prevent this issue. We will see if that's true or not. My daughter also bought a c-max. Hope this doesn't happen to her too. Btw current mpg is 47.7.

[Jus-A-CMax]

...that is news indeed,

 

Wow...quality issues with some components, somewhere? I mean I drain my batts jus to pull it into the garage but thus far, not one issue with dead batts (I am working on my wooden office desk and its already got my head bang marks)...nbut jus in case - touchwood. Sorry to hear about all these issues :(

[bam48]

Well, we are being told that they are going through the process of a buyback for our CMax. It's too bad because we can't seem to find a another car with that much room.

I am not sure, but our situation may be a little different than some on this forum.  Our batteries were completely dead, as in they could not be charged again, they had to be replaced on all occurrences, but one. 

 

Is this the case with most of the dead battery buybacks?

[salman]

bam48

 

I think your case is atypical and maybe unique. I cannot recall another case in which the battery was fried and could not take a charge. Even if it happened once to someone else, I definitely do not think it has ever happened repeatedly. Batteries have been changed in my case and others more as a precaution and gesture of goodwill, not because they could not take a charge. 

[ArizonaEnergi]

Well, we are being told that they are going through the process of a buyback for our CMax. It's too bad because we can't seem to find a another car with that much room.

Just buy another one.  The odds of getting another lemon are extremely small.

[Jus-A-CMax]

well said AE :thumbsup: ...the CMax is jus too good a car to give up on.

[bam48]

well said AE :thumbsup: ...the CMax is jus too good a car to give up on.

It has more to do with the company and how they handled the entire situation/process, and not the car itself.

We have never dealt with Ford before and may never again. Really disappointed.

[mbedit]

Our batteries were completely dead, as in they could not be charged again, they had to be replaced on all occurrences, but one. 

 

Is this the case with most of the dead battery buybacks?

 

That wasn't the case with mine. Though my 2nd C-Max did suffer a bad 12 V battery. Otherwise its been working great... and I have to agree I simply couldn't find another car that offered the versatility and fuel mileage of the C-Max. I really missed it when mine was in the shop for the recall updates. The loaner they gave me was a crappy Dodge, bad fuel mileage, no guts, and just uncomfortable to sit in.

[lumike]

DOA 4th time on 9-15-13

2 weeks since I had it hauled in last time.

In agreement with the earlier posters who recommend having it brought in by Ford Road Service. Can't hurt having a record built up.

Last time an assistant manager asked several good questions( about when I had the car washed, use of SYNC, etc) so it looks like some of the dealers are more aware of what's going on. Maybe looking at this forum.

Anyhow, I'll call Road Service later this AM and go in and start the ball rolling on getting a buy-back (or whatever they call it) I do want another C-max as my wife has handicap issues and this is the best fit for her.

 So far, she gets about 38-39 mpg. I am getting 42-43. Probably cause I do most of the driving.

 Stay tuned.

 Lumike

[C-MaxSea]

Lumike, your patience is admirable, and certainly shows the favor many of us have for our C-Maxes as well.  Sure hope they treat you right, and reward your patience with good service getting another one.  I certainly understand why some folks just have to move on to other vehicles (and not always C-Maxes).

 

Best wishes & luck in all regards.  (You too Linda (47.7 exc.!))

 

Ford really needs to get a handle on this.

 

Nick

Edited September 16, 2013 by C-MaxSea

[Bill-N]

DOA 4th time on 9-15-13

2 weeks since I had it hauled in last time.

In agreement with the earlier posters who recommend having it brought in by Ford Road Service. Can't hurt having a record built up.

Last time an assistant manager asked several good questions( about when I had the car washed, use of SYNC, etc) so it looks like some of the dealers are more aware of what's going on. Maybe looking at this forum.

Anyhow, I'll call Road Service later this AM and go in and start the ball rolling on getting a buy-back (or whatever they call it) I do want another C-max as my wife has handicap issues and this is the best fit for her.

 So far, she gets about 38-39 mpg. I am getting 42-43. Probably cause I do most of the driving.

 Stay tuned.

 Lumike

 

May I suggest the SEL model.  They seem to have fewer battery problems.  Also, I find the leather seats easier to slide in and out of than cloth.

[salman]

Lumike

 

There was another poster or two on the forum who had a buy back in the Ventura/Oxnard area. This has gone on so long that I have forgotten their name, but if you skim through the first half of the thread you will find their posts. Probably one can also search on the forum for "Oxnard" and "ventura" and find them. Odds are at least one used your dealer, so that dealer is probably well versed n the battery problem.

 

Your case and other recent cases make me think about the future because it is clear the problem has not been solved. I am thinking about options if Ford does not find a reliable fix. One option for me is a buy back if I have another episode. Maybe another option would be to start asking Ford to extend roadside assistance given that it will be necessary since they have not found a fix for the problem. An emergency battery jump starter is also an option  maybe Ford should buy them for us?

 

So far it does not seem that any published car reviews have mentioned the battery problem. 

[lumike]

Got a call from the service dept. Going to keep it overnight again and check for drains.

 C-MaxSea: stuff happens, no sense going ballistic, the dealer has been very helpful thus far.

 Bill-N: That may be an idea. Will have to see what the dealer will be willing to do.

Salman: Those posters from the Ventura area are the reason I switched dealers. ( plus the dealer in Thousand Oaks was not too sharp) In fact the service manager I use is the one who helped the other posters.

 I'm not sure how the buyback will go as it is a lease vehicle. But I do want another C-max. (just one that works ) When the tow truck showed up it was the same guy, Unfortunately we have a good routine worked out. Only took us 10 minutes to load the car. Easier now that I park face out in the driveway.

 I'll let you know what happens.

 Lumike

[grandpanooter]

We have 2013 cMax and the 12v battery has failed twice.  Once at about 900 miles and again at about 3700 miles.  Both times car towed to dealer, both times battery replaced, both times told never heard of this issue.  First time could not jump to get lights on.  Second time lights on and out of park, but would not run.  Tow operator stated that the battery was an issue with the CMax and Ford has no fix.  Dealer mechanic keeps asking what was left on in the vehicle.  We were using the auto light feature but since have stopped using this feature, just turn lights on and off manually, what a bummer!  Previous autos had this feature and it worked fine.  On our Saab we never turned the light switch off, so the lights were on every time the auto was started and never had an issue with a dead battery.  Seems the switch worked very well.

Have not seen any restart indication as some have posted, ie, bad relay or other electrical component.

Last time in dealer was asked to do the reprogramming for the transmission.  Stated this was not done and would be done when headliner parts came in as it takes up to 4 hours to download, is this so??  However, something was done to the computer system as the mileage indicator and battery usage images are now different, so we believe something was done though dealer says no!?  Some have stated that Ford got a bad batch of batteries, I find this somewhat disconcerting.  Dealer stated this "may" have been the issue on first failure.  Still sound "fishy" to us.

[drdiesel1]

Ford does not make batteries. The have a battery supplier and they label them MotorCraft.  It's certainly possible to get a bad batch

of batteries. It's also possible those bad batteries are in the thousands, number wise. The supplier sends them by the truckload to

the production plant and workers install them. Dealers get the same batteries and put them on the shelf to sell.  If this is the case,

it takes a while to get something done to eliminate the faulty batteries. 

 

  You might go by a replacement A/C Delco battery and see if this corrects your problem.  I've been keeping an eye on mine. It was @ 50% SOC the day I brought is home. I've charged it 3 times already. I've updated my BECM and all the other modules that had updates available. Even the DC/DC control module was reprogrammed.

I refuse to be jerked around by the dealer, so I'll see if I can resolve this low battery issue on my own, even if I need to buy a battery.

If that fixes it, I'll ask for a reimbursement for the cost of the battery.

[drdiesel1]

I just hooked up my charger again. It's back to 50% SOC.  I charged it last week, so it's a problem.  Looks like

I'll be trying a new battery soon.  I'll update this thread when I have more info. on this issue.

 

I do notice when my HV charging cord is plugged in, the 12V operated HV battery cooling fan runs all the time.

 While the key is off, the DC/DC system isn't charging the 12V battery.

  I'm beginning to think this might be part of the problem too.

The HVB is done charging but the cooling fan is running continually with the cord plugged in.

 Without the DC/DC charging input, the 12V battery is left to handle the load by itself.

 

  This could certainly be a problem. Anything over a 35 m/a voltage draw can kill a 12V battery in a short time.

  I think I'll do some testing to see what the amperage load to the 12V battery is while parked with nothing running,

 also while the HVB cooling fan is on.

 Should prove to be an interesting bug hunt :kookie:

Edited September 28, 2013 by drdiesel1

[bam48]

We have 2013 cMax and the 12v battery has failed twice.  Once at about 900 miles and again at about 3700 miles.  Both times car towed to dealer, both times battery replaced, both times told never heard of this issue.  First time could not jump to get lights on.  Second time lights on and out of park, but would not run.  Tow operator stated that the battery was an issue with the CMax and Ford has no fix.  Dealer mechanic keeps asking what was left on in the vehicle.  We were using the auto light feature but since have stopped using this feature, just turn lights on and off manually, what a bummer!  Previous autos had this feature and it worked fine.  On our Saab we never turned the light switch off, so the lights were on every time the auto was started and never had an issue with a dead battery.  Seems the switch worked very well.

Have not seen any restart indication as some have posted, ie, bad relay or other electrical component.

Last time in dealer was asked to do the reprogramming for the transmission.  Stated this was not done and would be done when headliner parts came in as it takes up to 4 hours to download, is this so??  However, something was done to the computer system as the mileage indicator and battery usage images are now different, so we believe something was done though dealer says no!?  Some have stated that Ford got a bad batch of batteries, I find this somewhat disconcerting.  Dealer stated this "may" have been the issue on first failure.  Still sound "fishy" to us.

Please read some previous posts regarding the batteries.  There is a theory that the 12v battery is not a strong enough battery.  Anything is possible, but I can tell you if that was the problem, "a bad batch of batteries" Ford would not be buying vehicles back.  I would try another dealership that is aware of all the issues with the CMax's and that can help you with your issues.  Also, the images may be different because they were not reprogrammed after the battery was recharged, possibly? Just make sure you are keeping all your records and check into your state's Lemon Law.  Our CMax is currently part of the "buyback" that is going on because some of these vehicles ARE lemons!

Edited September 28, 2013 by bam48

[bam48]

Also, grandpanooter, please do not buy a battery on your own.  Ford needs to take care of this issue. Why would you pay $25k or more for a vehicle and then go buy a new battery that is covered under your warranty? Let the dealerships and Ford figure this out, it is their responsibility to the consumer!!

[drdiesel1]

Also, grandpanooter, please do not buy a battery on your own.  Ford needs to take care of this issue. Why would you pay $25k or more for a vehicle and then go buy a new battery that is covered under your warranty? Let the dealerships and Ford figure this out, it is their responsibility to the consumer!!

So you're saying to continue to be put through this problem at the cost of a battery ?  Not worth it for me :drop:

[bam48]

YES!!! That way you have service records and then Ford will exchange or buyback a LEMON vehicle!!!! Why would you pay that much for something and not make the company accountable for their error?????

 

Not to mention, it's NOT just the BATTERY - there is something WRONG with some of the CMax vehicles and Ford needs to know about them so they can FIX the problem!!!!!!!

 

Also, grandpanooter, PLEASE use your auto lights, if this is the issue, then Ford will find out and then they can solve the issue.  If you are not using the vehicle how it is intended to be used, Ford will never know  what the issues are and the problems will never get corrected.

Edited September 29, 2013 by bam48