Battery dead

[ArizonaEnergi]

They offered to jump it but the dealer needed the car to arrive in the dead state to do diagnostics.

 

That's what all the dealers have requested when a dead battery has occurred.  As to whether they actually do testing or set up probes prior to jumping it themselves is anyone's guess.  I suspect not!  Good luck.

[salman]

Having a dead car towed to the dealer gives you the owner proof that it was dead. You get a service department ticket that  says the car came to them dead. That way Ford cannot deny the problem.

 

Having the car towed imposes a cost on Ford, and thus ever so slightly increases pressure to find a fix.

 

And having the car towed does preserve the possibility of service looking for clues while the car is dead.

[drdiesel1]

Having a dead car towed to the dealer gives you the owner proof that it was dead. You get a service department ticket that  says the car came to them dead. That way Ford cannot deny the problem.

 

Having the car towed imposes a cost on Ford, and thus ever so slightly increases pressure to find a fix.

 

And having the car towed does preserve the possibility of service looking for clues while the car is dead.

Yeah! Like the owner leaving something on ;)

[OutraGeo]

Ok, well - it took me several hours to read through 52 pages - but I wanted to be as informed as possible before chiming in: 

 

Add me to the "Dead 12v-in-a-C-Max Society".    Car is a 9/13-build Energi 302A with 3,400 miles.   Had a bit of a different lead-in to my DOA in-garage this morning; as follows:

 

2 nights ago, my auto-headlight function would not turn off the headlights after parking the car in the garage.  Normal routine for me has been to exit the vehicle, plug in my charger (hooked to a timer to start charging at midnight @lower rates), give the car a quick look-over and then head into the house.  Well, I saw that the headlights did not turn off (they usually turn off within seconds of powering down), even after I left the vehicle.  So I sat back inside, powered up, turned the headlight control knob to manual off, which killed the headlights, turned the know back to auto, which turned them on again, powered off and opened the door and the headlights turned off as before.

 

Yesterday was cold and rainy weekend out running errands - first time driving in those conditions.  Used extra climate, seat heaters, etc., lots of short trips., though not sure that has anything to do with it - some on the forum here seem to think so.

 

Today, went to pull the car out to do some shopping - and...  dead as can be - everything blacked out.  The weird thing is, I hooked up a charger under the hood at the posts, and the car IMMEDIATELY came to full life - all power and accessories full on.   I climbed in to check everything and at first noticed only the orange wrench icon on the left display and an error message to ("Check User Manual").  Lots of good that does - what are we supposed to do, look through hundreds of pages and just GUESS what the error is referring to?  Anyway - I did just that and after several maintenance and troubleshooting passages and reading, found nothing that was explaining or offering any way to remedy the situation.

 

The only other strange symptom I'm getting is now the driver's window only is automatically reversing when it reaches the top, fully-closed position and lowers again to about the half-way point.  Went through the whole bounce-back reset procedure (pg 97) several times, but I can;t seem to make this go away.  the wind is also no longer closing (raising) on "one-touch".  It opens (lowers) on one-touch, and all the other three windows are operating normally.

 

No clock problems, no accessory issues, and really little evidence of what caused the problem in the first place.  I fully charged the car, blue ring is normal, and the orange wrench and warning message went away, but the main display gave me a "scheduled maintenance" message when I powered up the first time.

 

In any case, I have to agree with the previous poster that it is NOT a problem exclusive or nearly so to the SE/SEL, it's just that there are fewer Energi units out there (and subsequently fewer chiming in to forums like this).  I believe the 12v battery problem is endemic to the C-Max line across the board and likely beyond to other models as well but perhaps to a lesser degree.

 

My intent is to take the car in to the dealer (Rancho Santa Margarita) and log the incident and have them check it out, etc.  From what I'm gathering here it may be a high load-short trip problem, inferior 12v battery problem, rain/water intrusion issue, DC/DC conversion malfunction, software/firmware update dilemma, rear liftgate wire-chafing matter, or any number of possible other things - none of which appear to be the definitive all-inclusive diagnosis.

 

Curiously, the day I went to pick the car up, I was asked to wait as the car needed to be "charged up".  Coincidence?

 

Yes, Ford needs to step up and admit there is a problem.  Clearly, over 1,000 posts in a single forum regarding this singular problem can only mean there is something larger at work here than "user-error".   The days of pointing fingers back at the customer are over.  We're not idiots.  Most of us bought (or leased) these vehicles only after substantial research and forethought.   And these C-Max vehicles are NOT cheap.  After spending this kind of money we shouldn't have to feel like we're rolling the dice and worry our loved ones may be stranded every time they pull out of the driveway.  I've still got two older cars out front, not worth more than $500 together, that never once gave me this kind of anxiety -and still wouldn't!  Something's wrong if I feel more comfortable going about my business in one of those beasts than in my slick new C-Max.

 

In any case - thanks for filling us all in with your stories. I've lurked around here for a while, but I registered today (well, yesterday), in the hopes of bonding and hopefully contributing something to the discussion.

 

p.s. A word to Ford (cuz I know you're reading this):  I've been a Ford man all my life - as was my dad.  This is my fifth - and last - if you guys don't come clean on this issue.  You'll never wee me in a Toyota - but I do have other choices...  How many life-long customers are you willing to risk by being evasive, clandestine, disingenuous.  You've got a problem.  Fix it.

[Bill-N]

The weird thing is, I hooked up a charger under the hood at the posts, and the car IMMEDIATELY came to full life - all power and accessories full on.

 

Actually, this is very typical of the dead battery syndrome.  There's a minimum voltage needed for the car to come alive.  The threshold is very sharp (binary); i.e. the 12V battery voltage is either above it or not.  If above, all is well, if not the entire car is DoA; there's no middle ground.

 

It's like Yoda said in The Empire Strikes Back, "Do or do not, there is no try."

[PJFW8]

Well said, OutraGeo!  I agree 100% Don't forget to fully charge your 12v battery as Drdiesel suggests. I have not had an issue since I followed his advice. (The charger he recommends is excellent and a great buy)

[salman]

OutraGeo

 

I think you are taking all the correct steps, namely bringing the car to the dealer. You should also contact Ford Customer Care directly after you get word back from the dealer. Wait until then so you can talk about what the dealer did or did not do to try to diagnose the problem(s).

 

A few comments, some potentially of use for you and some more general.

 

1) We now have a couple of reports of September 2013 build date CMaxs with dead battery problems. It seems the cause has not be corrected at the factory line, let along identified and corrected as a warranty repair matter.

 

2) Problems afflict all 3 versions of the CMax, most likely in proportion to their numbers on the road. The cars share a lot of parts.

 

3) Your problem with the headlights is a clue. That is a system not shutting down, so the first diagnostic steps probably ought to focus on that. That means things like the step down converter are probably not involved, but it possibly could be caused by bad software for the shut-down routine or a short circuit or a bad ground.

 

4) I do not think any other poster has mentioned headlights not shutting off automatically. There have been reports of USB ports staying on and problems with the entertainment system & screen. Also my weird self-opening windows and a service advisory about bad ground connections in the Body Control Module cauing erratic electrical behavior.

 

5) Is Ford denying a problem? Some dealers are still telling owners that their driving habits could be the cause. That is outrageous. But when speaking of Ford I think we need to recognize that the multiple TSBs they have issued acknowledge there is a problem with 12 volt systems malfunctioning. The TSBs are an admission that there is a problem.

 

6) when you first picked up the car you say the dealer charged it up. My guess is they charged the plug-in high voltage battery, not the 12 volt. Would you pleasse clarify?

 

7) While it is conceivably possible to avoid 12 volt problems in the C-Max by constantly charging the 12 volt battery with a trickle charger or, perhaps, routinely and regularly making sure the 12 volt battery is fully charged with a plug in charger, I do not think that is a good idea for a bunch of reasons: These are new cars that are not supposed to have problems like this, as opposed to hobby antique roadsters or patchwork transportation that one would expect to need constant band aids to plug leaks and top-ups of fluids, etc. There are clearly problems dating from the car's engineering design and these problems are covered by warranty and potentially cause for lemon law buy back if your car proves incorrigible. Given what is at stake ($25,000 to $35,000 purchase for us individually, many $millions for Ford), messing with anything that could give Ford an opportunity to semi-plausibly claim that owner intervention worsened the problem or violated warranty seems to me a bad move.

Edited November 24, 2013 by salman

[OutraGeo]

Thanks, guys - at least misery breeds good company, as they say - so something good is coming out of this...

 

Bill - yeah, the "instant charge" thing is a bit weird, that threshold between dead or alive must be a fine line indeed.  Although - when I discovered my car dead - I mean "dead-dead" - there was not a single electrical component that would light up.  In the garage, with all the lights off and completely dark, I notices when I put my eyeball right up to the turning signal or tail-lights that I could detect an extremely fain flickering - but no dome lights or dashboard power at all.  When I pulled the charger out to re-charge the battery, I connected the positive after taking off the little red cap under the hood, but I didn't see the negative post right away, so I was hunting for some bare metal to clip it to and when I tapped a corner bolt and got a little spark I clamped on and everything came back to full power in a split second.  Didn't really need recharging at all - but I left the charger hooked up anyway to get some readings hopefully 're-condition' the 12v system (wishful-thinking, I suppose).

 

PJ - I have a decent charger already, with automatic settings and shut-off, switchable 2amp-10amp, trickle charge, etc. -so it's not as fancy as the one DrDiesle has been hawking - but it'll do for now.  I'll probably spring the ~$60 or so and get one of those anyway if the problem persists, but I'm kinda hoping I won't need to.  I already had one of the car starting bricks that now goes with me everywhere.  It's older, but holds a charge, and hopefully will light things up enough to get me on my way if I need it.  If not - its' back to the auto parts store (or eBay or Amazon, whatever) to pick one up.

 

Salman - points well taken.  As others mentioned, we appreciate your advocacy here - just be careful you don't step on folks toes.  I value your commentary though - so keep 'em coming...  If push comes to shove with Ford, you're the type I want out in front anyway!  As for your #6 question, I don't know if the dealer was charging or jumping the vehicle when I went to pick it up.  In hindsight and after reading through this depressing thread, however, it just struck me as odd that they would have to jump (or charge) a brand new car coming off the lot (that has also been on a few recent test-drives, mine included a total of 65 miles at the time of transfer).

 

New info:  Found another electro-gremlin: my blue ring around the charging port has, twice in the last 48 hours, NOT shut off after the car is fully charged and no power to the charging cable.  My charger is on a timer so that I can take advantage of lower electric rates between midnight and 5am.  I plug the charger in whenever I pull into the garage and it automatically starts charging at midnight.  You know how the blue charger ring glows in quarter-ring segments as it is charging?  And as soon as it is fully charged (a few hours typically depending on how much juice it needed), the blue ring shows a complete circle with no segments pulsing?  Then the ring turns off.   Well, my ring wouldn't turn off.  On 'settings' on the dash and in the manual it explains how you can adjust when and how the blue ring lights up.  I just left mine at the default setting.  If you plug in a charger that has no juice, the blue ring glows for a bit, then goes dark.  Or, if the car is fully charged, it stops glowing and goes dark.

 

Clearly, look windows rolling down themselves, dome lights glowing long after people have left the vehicle, and my own headlights that would not shut themselves off with the 'auto' setting, this new 'blue-ring' issue could be a problem: what if I don't drive the car for a whole week - with no juice to the charging cable - the blue ring glowing anyway for days on end would, I presume, slowly drain the battery as well. 

 

The whole thing makes me think that there are several components that stay on or could drain the battery, that they happen intermittently, and unpredictably, and that it really has little to do with the 12v battery itself as much as some harness or connection or firmware glitch.

 

I mean, throughout this thread users have been quoting TSBs and other internal Ford communications that addressed to problem (in spite of the fact that they often deny such problems are prevalent).  I would have to assume that later adopters/purchasers like myself (car is barely one month mine) would ALREADY HAVE HAD THESE TSB issues applied to their newer vehicles.  Really - Ford can't be that naive or irresponsible as to ignore ongoing problems with cars that are still on the lot and haven't been delivered to customers yet - or can they?  If a TSB goes out that is universal to all C-Max cars, the smart thing to do would be to cycle your inventory through the shop and swap the connector or whatever do-hickey so that new purchasers don;t have problems as soon as they drive off the lot.

 

The fact that problems are STILL cropping up with new purchasers like me tells me there are only two possibilities:

1. They are ignoring the problem on undelivered vehicles, or

2. They still don't know what the problem is.

 

The TSBs I've looked over in these past pages (thanks for that by the way - it's great ammo when going to the dealer or Ford Cust Svc.), all stipulate: "for vehicles manufactured BEFORE such and such build date."  Well - the presumption implies that AFTER that build date the problem was addressed at the factory.  So if my C-Max was manufactured in Sept'13, and STILL having problems, then either the former TSB does not apply, OR the problem is STILL not being addressed adequately.

 

Enough for now - have had no problems (other than the blue ring glow and the drivers window "one-touch up" not working) in the last day or two - but I'm going to the dealer tomorrow anyway to give them an earful and let them scope the car.  It's time to join the paper trail - WooHoo!

 

p.s. I still love the dang car, though!  Rides smooth and quiet, great gas mileage, lots of bells and whistles (that maybe the problem, eh?), HOV stickers for solo carpooling.  Not much of chick-magnet, but I plan to remedy that with some, ahem, modifications - if and when this other bugaboo 12v issue gets resolved.

 

Carry ON!

[Bill-N]

Didn't really need recharging at all ....

 

Oh but it did need recharging: to get the voltage up above the go/no-go threshold.

 

Try this for an analogy.  Imagine the 12V battery is like a bucket with water in it and a spigot high up on the side.  To start the car, you need water to flow out of the spigot.  While the bucket may still have lots of water in it, if the water level (i.e.voltage) is below the spigot, the car won't start.

 

Incidentally, there's a completely separate energi forum (fordcmaxenergiforum.com or some such) that may be useful.  It's n/a for me so I haven't looked.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

Cheers.

[obob]

So the dealer can jump it......... :lol:  They need to have power to run a scan tool on it.

Some dealer employee's are just frickin geniuses.

 

There is a good chance that is what they did.

 

Some ideas I have are they could take off the battery cables and check the resistance between the cables to see if something is still demanding electricity.  If the resistance if super high then nothing at that time is demanding electricity. There are things someone could to do to localize the system drawing current, though that would be more for a Ford engineer.  They could also check the voltage of that battery at that time.

 

I am also wondering if Ford could have a computer write diagnostic information on the last say 48 hours recording what is drawing current.

Edited November 26, 2013 by obob

[andeeca]

We received a new battery the last time (several months ago) that it went dead.  This morning it was dead AGAIN.  My husband said he accidentally left it in neutral (because he puts it there after pulling up to the physical stop on the garage floor so that the tires aren't being smashed).  How would that cause it?  Maybe he didn't turn it off.  Still don't understand how the large battery wouldn't just keep the small one charged if the car was left on.  Sorry if this was addressed in the last 15 pages that I haven't read up on yet.  Too tired.  

[OutraGeo]

Oh but it did need recharging: to get the voltage up above the go/no-go threshold.

 

Incidentally, there's a completely separate energi forum (fordcmaxenergiforum.com or some such) that may be useful.  It's n/a for me so I haven't looked.

 

Hi Bill.  Yep - I understood the electronics and technology, and thanks for the analogy! That bucket thing was cute.  Anyway - if the 12v battery DID need charging then it needed only a microsecond and practically charged up to full power from the arc as my negative clamped neared a piece of bare metal.  Not sure how much actual 'charging' could have taken place in such a short time, but it was less time than flipping a switch.

 

Yep - I know about the Energi forum - been there.  Weak.  There just aren't enough C-Max Energi drivers out there yet and the threads are bare-bones with little participation.   This C-max Hybrid forum has way more participants and interesting material, and my car, even though it is an Energi as opposed to an SE/SEL model, still qualifies as a Hybrid C-Max.  I know, cuz my car thanks me for driving one every time I power down!

 

Thanks, tho - maybe once more Energi folks sign on I'll mosey back over there for a look-see.  In the meantime - YOU guys (and gals) are where the action is and you're talking about a problem I'm having as we speak - so I'll pull up a chair, if that's ok, and stay around here a little longer spell...

 

p.s. Since I've re"conditioned" (charged) my battery, nothing has gone amiss, though I'm hardly convinced the charging had anything to do with it.  My windows mysteriously returned to normal operation all on their own, and the blue ring glowing past it's time-out hasn't re-occurred either.  truth is, I'm still sneaking down to the garage in the middle of the night expecting to hear the car burp or wink a turn signal at me or something. 

 

I also downloaded and installed the smartphone monitoring app to check battery status on stuff remotely.  That's very cool - but doesn't the system need to have SOME juice to be able to telemeter that status stuff to my smartphone app?   Hmm...  gotta look into that one...

[drdiesel1]

There is a good chance that is what they did.

 

Some ideas I have are they could take off the battery cables and check the resistance between the cables to see if something is still demanding electricity.  If the resistance if super high then nothing at that time is demanding electricity. There are things someone could to do to localize the system drawing current, though that would be more for a Ford engineer.  They could also check the voltage of that battery at that time.

 

I am also wondering if Ford could have a computer write diagnostic information on the last say 48 hours recording what is drawing current.

It's Impossible to resistance test for parasitic battery loads.

Disconnecting the battery will only serve to shut down all systems the same as a dead battery will.

[plus 3 golfer]

IMO, the best way to measure parasitic load on a circuit is to measure the voltage drop across the fuse on the circuit.  If there's current flowing through the fuse, there will be voltage drop.  One needs a lookup table based on the fuse (or know the resistance of the fuse) to determine the current draw.   VW issued a TB on this with lookup tables (see attachment) many years ago.  It works extremely well as there's no need to disconnect the battery and insert an ammeter which may "wake" "sleeping" control modules.  Also, there's no need to pull fuses with this method.  I don't know what Ford's "sleep" mode current draw is but my guess is that it is well less than 100 mA total. 

 

 

TSB_27_08_04_Matrix.pdf

[drdiesel1]

You need to know the total draw on the system first.  Unless you can find the acceptable draw on each and every fused circuit you're testing. The standard parasitic load test limits are 35 to 40 m/a total. After you install the switch and run the car, you install the meter and open the switch and wait for all the modules to sleep. Some can take up to an hour, but most are off by 20 to 25 min. Disconnecting the battery to install the meter is useless. The modules power down and can get locked up with low voltage issues when the meter is installed. You need the switch to do a proper parasitic load test. Otherwise, you're just wasting time and chasing your tail around in a circle :headspin:

Edited November 26, 2013 by drdiesel1

[plus 3 golfer]

You need to know the total draw on the system first.  Unless you can find the acceptable draw on each and every fused circuit you're testing. The standard parasitic load test limits are 35 to 40 m/a total. After you install the switch and run the car, you install the meter and open the switch and wait for all the modules to sleep. Some can take up to an hour, but most are off by 20 to 25 min. Disconnecting the battery to install the meter is useless. The modules power down and can get locked up with low voltage issues when the meter is installed. You need the to do a proper parasitic load test. Otherwise, you're just wasting time and chasing your tail around in a circle :headspin:

 

 

So, Ford's total sleep mode draw is virtually the same as VW around 40 mA.  

 

The preferred way to measure total draw is to use a clamp on meter around the negative cable from the battery (accessible in the rear of the C-Max). So, you don't need the switch.  I will say though that most owners likely don't have a clamp on ammeter with a 10 mA or even 100 mA resolution.  Once the modules are asleep, the voltage drop method will indicate which circuits have a high draw. It's a lot easier than pulling fuses.  One really then needs the wiring diagrams to determine what loads are on the modules to further troubleshoot components of the high draw circuits.  I have also measured the current draws on fuses in my VWs when modules are not in sleep mode.  Most have found in VWs that parasitic drains are mostly caused by such things as amplifier / radio / other electronic systems not shutting down or intermittent switches / crimped wiring that keeps modules awake.

 

drdiesel1 if you have Ford's method of troubleshooting battery drain (like I attached above for VW), please post it or paraphrase it.  Making statements like "You need the switch to do a proper parasitic load test. Otherwise, you're just wasting time and chasing your tail around in a circle" is not correct."

[drdiesel1]

So, Ford's total sleep mode draw is virtually the same as VW around 40 mA.  

 

The preferred way to measure total draw is to use a clamp on meter around the negative cable from the battery (accessible in the rear of the C-Max). So, you don't need the switch.  I will say though that most owners likely don't have a clamp on ammeter with a 10 mA or even 100 mA resolution.  Once the modules are asleep, the voltage drop method will indicate which circuits have a high draw. It's a lot easier than pulling fuses.  One really then needs the wiring diagrams to determine what loads are on the modules to further troubleshoot components of the high draw circuits.  I have also measured the current draws on fuses in my VWs when modules are not in sleep mode.  Most have found in VWs that parasitic drains are mostly caused by such things as amplifier / radio / other electronic systems not shutting down or intermittent switches / crimped wiring that keeps modules awake.

 

drdiesel1 if you have Ford's method of troubleshooting battery drain (like I attached above for VW), please post it or paraphrase it.  Making statements like "You need the switch to do a proper parasitic load test. Otherwise, you're just wasting time and chasing your tail around in a circle" is not correct."

Every car is different. I said the normal acceptable draw is between 35 and 40 m/a. I had one today that has 47m/a on a 2004 GMC Yukon.

I draw the line @ 50m/a on most vehicles. Using a clamp style meter is okay, but I prefer an inline setup, but you can chase it anyway you like.

[mbedit]

As someone who has been following/posting on this thread since page 1,  I have to say it is a bit disheartening to see the core issue hasn't been solved yet.

 

I think Edmunds summed up my feeling when I 1st got into my C-Max...

 

"I want a car that gives me the passenger space and commanding view of the road of a compact SUV, but I'd like it to get the fuel economy of a Prius."

Up until now, finding such a car was just as plausible as waking up to find a unicorn munching on your lawn. Yet the 2013 Ford C-Max Hybrid proves that such a magical blending is possible.

 

And I still really really like my C-Max.

 

Ultimately seeing this issue drag out confirms to me that the C-Max electrical design/Build is marginal. It seems that if you get one that works your good. I see this all the time in control systems where a part is selected and built into a design and it works great until the part manufacture has to change it slightly, and though its with-in its own spec, it pushes the aggregate design up to or just over the intended design limit causing intermittent failures. 

 

This was ultimately the deciding factor for me when Ford couldn't fix my 1st C-Max and offered to return it to the factory and repair it. I think their are a set of people whom Ford has legitimately identified the problem and fixed it for them, e.g. dash issue or a wiring harness issue, but I still not convinced that their isn't some other issue either with the way certain parts work in the aggregate or just the way they are assembled. 

 

The complexity of different systems in different models doesn't make it any easier for Ford to find the problem, but since, as its been pointed out, the issue seems to effect all models, one might think starting with the simplest and solving the core issue there would lend to resolving the others. 

 

On this Thanksgiving day, I think I'll be thankful that my replacement C-Max has been functioning exceptionally well, and hope that for those still fighting the issue... it gets resolved for you.

[darrelld]

http://www.edmunds.com/volkswagen/passat/2013/long-term-road-test/2013-volkswagen-passat-tdi-jump-starts-a-plug-in-hybrid.html

 

 

This morning our 2013 Volkswagen Passat TDI came to the aid of a car with a dead battery. We used the Passat to jump start a Ford C-Max Energi plug-in hybrid, whose battery had died while the car was plugged in charging. Yep, we got a laugh out of that one, too.

 




 

Edited December 7, 2013 by darrelld

[Temp61]

From Ohio

 

My wife brought the keys in the other morning and said "give me yours".   This is our 6th dead battery occurrence over the last 10 months and that is about 5 too many. My vehicle is a early build SE base model with the small 4.5" screen.  Every time the dead battery has been after the car was parked overnight in our garage.

 

I believe the issue has something to do with the Bluetooth connectivity on the Cmax.  As a test, I disabled the bluetooth on my phone several months ago after reading about it in this forum as a potential source of the problem.  Also have had no problems since the July software update and I thought I was home free....wrong assumption.     I activated bluetooth again last week for some app that needed it on my phone and forgetting why I turned it off in the first place.   I heard the bluetooth connection chirp on my phone inside the house which, I thought was odd but let it pass.  Within a week the car was dead again.

 

I have opened a case to have Ford replace the vehicle.  I like the Cmax but would like it a lot better if it simply started in the morning. 

[Laurel]

Tempe that is fascinating about the Blue Tooth.  Good luck with your case with Ford.  Keep us posted.  I would love to know if Ford is looking at the Blue Tooth connectivity issues.

[mbedit]

There's an FSA/recall now. 13B12 which is out. details are in this thread. I don't know if there is anything different for people experiencing issues, but I hope it helps!

[Jonescurt]

Well haven't been on this thread for a while since my last dead battery was back in May. The dealer did a software "fix" and said I wouldn't have any more problems. That was until yesterday (Christmas Eve) when it was dead once again. Great timing. Dealership was closed and it put a delay in all of our holiday plans. So this is the 5th time this has happened in the last 12 months. I bought my SE model on Dec 28th 2012. So this will clearly qualify for my state's lemon law. I am really looking forward to giving this car back to Ford and never buying a Ford again.

[handymann]

Add me to the list .  My car was dead as a door nail this morning.  Just left for the dealer on a flatbed.

[Laurel]

Sorry to hear about the new dead batteries.  Keep us posted.