Battery dead

[Jus-A-CMax]

wow, I lucked out with my SEL, thats for sure. Rain, snow and ice...no issues till date but I hand wash my Maxine, of course. Great informative thread, thanks for the updates everyone :)

[TnTravler]

I'm sorry to see people are still fighting this issue!

 

I hadn't checked back in awhile, but I got a call from Ford Engineering out of the blue today, and it was related to these continuing issues.

 

In a nutshell, it sounds like they are working multiple software issues that have been causing batteries to drain.

 

They were looking for some more info, and while my replacement C-Max has been working fine, the line of questions did spark recollection of an odd incident I had a few weeks ago.

 

I was just parking when my phone rang (which is synced to the blue tooth). It rang through the C-max sync, but I didn't answer it, instead I shut the car off and exited. I ran an errand, and came back, and when I restarted the C-Max and the phone went to sync, it started to ring through the sync, and it said it was the person that called me when I exited the C-Max. When I tried to answer, it would say something like connect failed, but then it would keep dialing and ringing through the C-Max.

 

I believe I had to turn the blue tooth on my phone off, and force a disconnect and then turn it back on and reconnect it to make it stop!

 

Anyhow, Ford said that this is still one issue that others have reported and they speculate that the phone module isn't dropping the blue tooth connection for some people, which in turn is causing the module to run and drain batteries.

 

They also said Ford is very very aware that there are still issues and are really working hard to sove them, which is why I think they are reaching out a bit.

 

I still haven't had any real trouble with my replace now, going on 6 months, and I hope I don't, but this issue certainly seems to be taking a toll on an otherwise fine vehicle.

 

I see people are speculating about rain issues, and maybe there are some that have some sort of issue, but it rains like a mad-man here, I park mine outside because I don't a garage, and I still haven't had any issues (knocks on wood!)

[TnTravler]

I was just parking when my phone rang (which is synced to the blue tooth). It rang through the C-max sync, but I didn't answer it, instead I shut the car off and exited. I ran an errand, and came back, and when I restarted the C-Max and the phone went to sync, it started to ring through the sync, and it said it was the person that called me when I exited the C-Max. When I tried to answer, it would say something like connect failed, but then it would keep dialing and ringing through the C-Max.

 

I believe I had to turn the blue tooth on my phone off, and force a disconnect and then turn it back on and reconnect it to make it stop!

 

I have had the same thing happen to me.  It seems obvious to me that something is not disconnecting and keeping the system "awake" once you exit the vehicle.  I like the idea of the EV+ continuing to monitor location that someone had and for me the "always" happens at home is spot-on.  I'm thinking I will turn off EV+ mode and be sure to disable the bluetooth and unplug the iPod before I exit the vehicle. May or may not help but at least I'll feel proactive while Ford continues the search. 

[salman]

Anyone know when they fixed the wiring harness for water intrusion?  Would be good to know when they

started building cars with the new harnesses.

I don't have that info.

 

FWIW, my car was built in October 2012. The most recent dead battery incident happened in the first half of May 2013. According to Ford the connectors have been improved to keep them water tight. But I do not know when they introduced the improved part.

 

Separately, concerning the cell phone issues: I have never synced my cell phone to the CMax or used any blue tooth accessory.

[Temp61]

From Ohio

 

I enjoy watching this forum.  We all own a great vehicle (in concept) and are all amateur detectives involved in a game of CMax Clue.... who did it and who will solve it first?  I knew going in on my purchase that first generation vehicles will give you a run for your money but I bought because I believe the concept is solid.  My chief problem now, after 5 dead batteries, is that my wife will not take her car outside of a 20 mile radius from town.  I offered her a crank from an old Model T but she just shook her head.......

 

We're not as smart as the brains in Detroit and Seattle but I'm guessing the Ford engineers & Microsoft techies are beating the hell out of each other pointing fingers...."not my fault".  I'm a patient guy but I told Ford that one more time will be the straw that broke the camel's back.  My car has run fine for 6 weeks since all TSB's have been applied and wiring harness checked but I don't believe they have found the root cause for the problem. 

[mbedit]

I have had the same thing happen to me.  It seems obvious to me that something is not disconnecting and keeping the system "awake" once you exit the vehicle.  I like the idea of the EV+ continuing to monitor location that someone had and for me the "always" happens at home is spot-on.  I'm thinking I will turn off EV+ mode and be sure to disable the bluetooth and unplug the iPod before I exit the vehicle. May or may not help but at least I'll feel proactive while Ford continues the search. 

 

Thats a great extra data point TnTraveler, and I can confirm that one time I had this happen, I was in an EV+ zone!

 

 

I don't believe they have found the root cause for the problem. 

Root cause implies there is a singular issue, this sounds like a multi-issue problem, and I can tell you from experience, that these are always the most difficult to solve.

[rkmoose]

I just got my car(C-Max SE) back from the Ford service center. Back in Feb. 2013 we went out to the garage and the battery was dead. We had driven the car the night before. We called the roadside assistance and he put a battery pack on the battery and got it going again,. We bought the car in Dec,2012 and it was manufactured in Oct. 2012.  The car had 1897 miles on it when the Feb. incident occured. We called the Ford dealer at the time and he said we could bring it in to be checked out. We never did(thought it was a fluke) and things seemed fine until this past Sat. morining. Same thing except that it would not hold a charge.

I ran to the computer to Google the problem. I was livid! It had to be towed to the Ford dealer. It had just under 5000 miles on it. Thanks to this forum I knew there was a problem with other C-Max cars. I basically told the service department what I wanted done based on the info from this site. They replaced the battery and installed the May software fix. I suppose time will tell if this works. I think Ford should have at least sent out a letter to C-Max owners to be aware of the problems. But of course if word got out about it, their sales may drop. We love the C-max...comfort, mpg's and style and have never bought a new model the first year. I did read that C-Max was in Europe for a while now. We just got back from Europe and saw a few on the road. Thanks to everyone who has posted and shared info. I'll definately check this site for updates.
 

 

Mod edited: to remove huge spacing in post, improve readability.

Edited June 25, 2013 by Jus-A-CMax

[Adair]

Welcome RKmoose! So sorry to hear of your battery issues!! 

[barrier2entry]

I just got my car back from its 4th service for the dead battery issue. 

 

This time, they had a Ford FSE help investigate.  Instead of claiming to have done anything to address the issue, however, they basically admitted that they don't have a fix.  They said they think it is a software issue but they're not sure when (if?) there would be a fix for that and advised me to "turn off the radio and don't touch anything else" before shutting down the car.

 

They did check for water in the connectors.

 

I understand it is a tough problem to isolate, but I'm very frustrated.  Essentially, I don't have a car I can use for anything but local commutes, and can't even count on it for that.

[salman]

barrier 2 entry

 

have you checked your local lemon law? in many states 4 failed repair attempts allows an owner to invoke the lemon law and demand a buy back. Ford appears to be pretty good about this, and in your case they seem to have admitted they do not yet have a fix for the problem.

 

I like my c-max except for the battery problems. I've had 2 dead battery episodes and at least 3 service visits for the battery - I say at least 3 because I've spent a lot more time on this with Ford than just the service visits. If there is another dead battery and no clear fix I would need to start asking Ford for a buy back.

[Laurel]

I just got my car back from its 4th service for the dead battery issue. 

 

This time, they had a Ford FSE help investigate.  Instead of claiming to have done anything to address the issue, however, they basically admitted that they don't have a fix.  They said they think it is a software issue but they're not sure when (if?) there would be a fix for that and advised me to "turn off the radio and don't touch anything else" before shutting down the car.

 

They did check for water in the connectors.

 

I understand it is a tough problem to isolate, but I'm very frustrated.  Essentially, I don't have a car I can use for anything but local commutes, and can't even count on it for that.

Ditto what Salman says.  I think you say it all when you say that you can only use your car locally due to lack of reliability.  That is just plain wrong.  Time to initiate a buy back and put your foot down hard. 

[barrier2entry]

Thanks for the feedback.  Yes my state lemon laws kick in after 4 failures (or 2 safety issue failures) or 30 days out of service.  I have sent a letter to Ford to initiate the process :sad:

 

Like you, I like the car except for this issue, but it's a big one ("other than that, how did you enjoy the play, Mrs. Lincoln")

barrier 2 entry

have you checked your local lemon law? in many states 4 failed repair attempts allows an owner to invoke the lemon law and demand a buy back. Ford appears to be pretty good about this, and in your case they seem to have admitted they do not yet have a fix for the problem.

I like my c-max except for the battery problems. I've had 2 dead battery episodes and at least 3 service visits for the battery - I say at least 3 because I've spent a lot more time on this with Ford than just the service visits. If there is another dead battery and no clear fix I would need to start asking Ford for a buy back.

[salman]

Please keep us posted on your experience with the buy back. I believe yours will be the 4th buy back reported here.

[salsaguy]

barrier, will you trade it for another CMax that works as designed or a diff car, and if so, which car?

[Noah Harbinger]

barrier, offhand, what's your build date? 

[Bob999]

DUH!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Battery dead again this AM, but I think I may know what’s happening.

 

Both times I went to Swenson’s Drive In to eat. After you finish eating you turn on your car headlights to get the server to take the tray.

Last night for sure, I left the headlights in the ‘ON’ position.

This morning after the car was dead, I looked at my Vehicle Settings on the left display and my Home Light setting was set to Manual, which means that the lights won’t turn off automatically.

Don’t know if I accidentally set them that way or if it was reset during the 3.5.1 upgrade. Who knows.

 

I’m going to watch and see how it behaves after this and let you know. I have a battery jumper I can take with me that works fine to get it started.

 

I have my Home light set to "Manual" and my experience is that means there is no delay --the lights turn off immediately.  My understanding is that the Home light setting is the number of seconds delay before the headlights are turned off automatically and the "Manual" setting corresponds to "0".

[barrier2entry]

I haven't decided what I would do next, yet.  It depends on how long it takes, etc. since my options may be different, for example, if it spills into the next model year.

barrier, will you trade it for another CMax that works as designed or a diff car, and if so, which car?

[barrier2entry]

I think it was sometime last December, but I don't have the info with me...

 

barrier, offhand, what's your build date? 

[rtshinn]

Mine ended up being fixed by whatever TSB was required, and a new battery,

[Maxy]

Well, sadly I had my third dead battery yesterday morning. In May I had the latest TSB updates done and everything checked out fine.

As most of the postings in this battery problem, I had nothing unusual happening, just dead on the driveway. Roadside to the rescue...

Reported it to Ford, but have not have the chance to take it in for service. Dead battery seems to reoccur every 4-6 weeks. Ford customer service told me there is no new updates or recalls, so I'll just wait for the dead morning or night again:( Kind of a bummer, since otherwise like he car, but for 30K having a new car with problems is not cool! The least Ford could do is offer a loner car to all of us who are trying to be patient while they are scratching their head to figure out this mystery. Being without a car for days, since do not want to pay for a rental car on top of my car payment to have transportation is a bit upsetting. It is inconvenience enough to worry everyday if my new car starts or not.

[HPRifleman]

Ever since getting the car over a month ago I have been trying to consistantly check the 12v battery voltage. Typically I have checked the voltage in the morning before going to work after the car has been sitting overnight in the garage.

 

Since the hood is locked, my usual procedure has been to open the driver's side door and use the latch by the footwell to unlock the hood. Then close the door, raise the hood, and use a multimeter to check voltage on the electrical posts. This voltage has typically been 12.20-12.25v.

 

I did notice that when I open the door the dash lights up and I hear relays click. Thinking that this might be altering my voltage reading I decided to change my procedure. Now I unlock the hood the night before, sometimes after coming home. Then when I open the hood and take a reading the car is in a state where it has been sitting without any unusual current draw. The measurements without opening the door in the morning have been about 12.50v.

 

I thought I would share this in case others are keeping track of voltage levels as well.

[TED]

Ford decided my C-Max was not a "lemon," so I am moving forward with arbitration for a repurchase. I was contacted by a Ford customer service manager who told me they (presumably Ford) had additional diagnostic tools not available to the dealer to repair my battery. Everyone says something different. I said "no thanks." Something I did not realize before: when the battery dies, you cannot turn the steering wheel, get out of a locked car, or have running lights. For me, this is a tremendous safety issue. I cannot imagine an arbitrator would find against someone under these circumstances - and 3 batteries in 7 months without success. I would like very much to hear from those who have successfully returned their C-Maxs for repurchase.

[Maxy]

I was just about to ask, if anyone knows, can I get out of the car if battery dies while I am in it?

Or, can I open the lift gate, back doors other than driver door without power. With my previous VW I was able to with key turning twice, when remote did not work.

[mbedit]

I don't think its true that you can't get out of the car if the battery is dead. Typically, the door handle has a mechanical override exactly for that purpose. I could be wrong about that though in the case of the C-Max.

 

My C-Max is the base SE, w/o a FOB, so when it was dead, I could certainly get into it using the key, but I never tried locking myself in.

 

TED, Lemon Laws a a bit different in each state, but you need to make sure you've followed them to the letter as Ford, and presumably any auto manufacture, will want to hold consumers to rules.

 

In my case, you had to have 3 or more attempts to repair the same issue, and your car has to be out of service for more than 30 days combined. Even after all that, you need to write a letter and send it to Ford, and the dealer, and give them one more chance to try and fix the issue. All that combined from the day I had the 1st issue to the day I had a new car was about 3 months. I'd say that from the time I asked about the buyback, it took about 3-4 weeks to get everything done.

 

If your state has the same rule about allowing the manufacture one last chance to fix the issue, then Ford is in the right to request the opportunity to make you whole. But you need to make sure you understand exactly what has to be done according to your states laws, and follow them to the letter, otherwise, you'll just give them an opportunity to say that you didn't do something procedurally correct.

 

Only after all that fails could a buy back be initiated.

 

Ford also told me that the buyback was made much simpler and quicker because I didn't ask for my money back, I just asked to have another one that worked.

 

In my experience, the Dealer and Ford did everything they could and and were very reasonable and helpful. The only bit of irritation came from the outsourced company that Ford uses to handle the money/title accounting etc...  aspect of the buyback.

 

The end result for me was between Ford and my Dealer, they found me another C-Max, exactly the same model color etc... just like it never happened, and my new one has worked perfectly, and I love it.

Edited June 29, 2013 by mbedit

[mbedit]

TED,

 

It looks like your in California, and if so, A quick google returns the following:

It shall be presumed that a reasonable number of attempts have been made to conform a new motor vehicle to the applicable express warranties if, within 18 months from delivery to the buyer or 18,000 miles on the odometer of the vehicle, whichever occurs first, either

 

(1) the same nonconformity has been subject to repair four or more times by the manufacturer or its agents and the buyer has at least once directly notified the manufacturer of the need for the repair of the nonconformity or

(2) the vehicle is out of service by reason of repair of nonconformities by the manufacturer or its agents for a cumulative total of more than 30 calendar days since delivery of the vehicle to the buyer. The 30-day limit shall be extended only if repairs cannot be performed due to conditions beyond the control of the manufacturer or its agents. The buyer shall be required to directly notify the manufacturer pursuant to paragraph (1) only if the manufacturer has clearly and conspicuously disclosed to the buyer, with the warranty or the owner's manual, the provisions of this section and that of subdivision (d) of Section 1793.2, including the requirement that the buyer must notify the manufacturer directly pursuant to paragraph (1). This presumption shall be a reputable presumption affecting the burden of proof, and it may be asserted by the buyer in any civil action, including an action in small claims court, or other formal or informal proceeding.

 

It looks like Ford has 4 chances or 30 days out of service  to fix your issue. Also You do have to write them and notify them of the non-conformance, give the specifics as the warranty in the users manual does invoke that clause. 

 

I'm unsure if you owe them an opportunity to try and fix it one last after they tried to repair it 4 times, but that is the type of language you need to include in writing the letter since your at 3 attempts, then there is no argument about your intent.