Dead Battery for the fifth time

[Kelleytoons]

2013?  Or built prior to January of this year?

 

Our SE 2014 (built in January) doesn't have this issue -- which isn't to say that *every* SE built after January of this year is okay, but the odds are much better.  Clearly they solved a lot of issues related to this battery problem.

 

I always feel in these cases your absolute best bet is to get ANOTHER of exactly the same model.  I've pasted this elsewhere, but it's very relevant:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBSAeqdcZAM

 

Because the odds of you getting two lemons are *extremely* remote.  And, given the circumstances, if you start lemon law your dealer may well agree to just trade you another, more recent model.  A much easier experience than going through the car buying process with another dealer somewhere else (and you can get the same great deal, or perhaps even better).

 

Just a thought...  (don't shoot the messenger).

[stevedebi]

I'm getting the run a round on this issue at my dealer...

 

Apparently using the C-Max like you would say, every other car on the planet is a no go. Apparently you must make sure that all power adapters are unplugged even if no phone or other device is actually plugged in to the loose cord. 

 

Now we all know this is not true, but try talking to a "technician" who knows everything and he will tell you the above. I'll just document really well and the third time it occurs I will lemon law it. 

 

My battery after driving 25 miles home died 5 hours after I parked it in front of my home. Yet cords drawing no power, while the vehicle is in Park, ignition off, keys out and locked is the problem. 

 

Guess I will start pricing the Camry Hybrid, or Jetta Hybrid 

Make sure everything is fully unplugged so they have no excuse. Then wait for it to happen three times, and go to the lemon law to get a buyback.

[pittcmax]

Yeah ok and now today I drove it for 134 miles. Outside temp 40-42 F.

 

Have driven in this range a few times and get 42-44 mpg.

 

Today? 36.7. Something is now messed up as the ICE is barely capable of getting 20-23 mpg on a flat grade.

 

Out of 134 69.4 were EV mode. Think about that. How bad is my ICE now on gas. On any grade the ICE is getting 8-10.

 

Other variables. It was light rain all evening and night. I have driven this vehicle exactly the same in these conditions and never gotten mileage this bad.

 

On the freeway I was only able to get 34mpg with cruise set at 55 for 12 miles and 65 for 4 miles. I have NEVER gotten below 40.

 

The car is used primarily for business and I got it so I would have lower cost per mile than my saab 9-3. 37 mpg wont do it.

 

I can't wait til it keeps doing this battery thing - great car until the 12V fails then the ICE becomes worse than a V8 on gas.

[pittcmax]

Oops double post.

Edited December 6, 2014 by pittcmax

[Kelleytoons]

As I understand it, ICE doesn't get good mileage per se -- because it also charges the battery at the same time you can't expect it to get the mpg you'd get out of any normal vehicle.  The only way you can look at it is total mpg.

 

And while I haven't driven when it's that cold (and, hopefully, never will :>) I would suspect that's about right for the driving conditions you are describing depending on how you were driving, assuming you live in an area where they put "winter gas" out for consumption.  But I'm sure other cold weather folks will chime in here.

[bgarr]

Okay, I got our C-MAX back from the dealer after a week in the shop.  They replaced the DC/DC converter.  They had trouble procuring the part.  I don't have the paperwork yet to see if they applied any TSBs or updated any software.  I will post here when I have more information.

[pittcmax]

I have driven it in colder weather and the same weather.

 

Somewhere I lost 7mpg over what I was getting 1 week ago in the same or cooler temps.

[kostby]

Yeah ok and now today I drove it for 134 miles. Outside temp 40-42 F.

 

Have driven in this range a few times and get 42-44 mpg.

 

Today? 36.7. Something is now messed up as the ICE is barely capable of getting 20-23 mpg on a flat grade.

 

Out of 134 69.4 were EV mode. Think about that. How bad is my ICE now on gas. On any grade the ICE is getting 8-10.

 

Other variables. It was light rain all evening and night. I have driven this vehicle exactly the same in these conditions and never gotten mileage this bad.

 

On the freeway I was only able to get 34mpg with cruise set at 55 for 12 miles and 65 for 4 miles. I have NEVER gotten below 40.

 

The car is used primarily for business and I got it so I would have lower cost per mile than my saab 9-3. 37 mpg wont do it.

 

I can't wait til it keeps doing this battery thing - great car until the 12V fails then the ICE becomes worse than a V8 on gas.

 

You traded in a perfectly good Saab 9-3 for a C-MAX Hybrid and now you're feeling used and abused. And now that the car "knows" you're going to lemon-law it, it is burning excessive amounts of fuel just to incite you. Fine. Enjoy your lemon-law buyback. Now please go be upset somewhere else. And have a nice life. :)

 

============

 

I never let facts stand in the way of a good rant. Even if it is in the wrong forum. This is the Batteries forum, not the Fuel Mileage forum. But I digress...

 

The 2014 C-MAX Hybrid is EPA rated at 37mpg highway. pittcmax got 36.7mpg for about 1/4 of a tank?

 

Driving 134 indicated miles using the car's displayed 36.7 miles per gallon, uses a calculated 3.65 gallons of fuel.

 

ICE-only cars gets low mpg numbers (8-10 mpg) when warming up in cold temperatures. Most of them without shut-off/restart also get a glorious 0mpg when warming up in the driveway or stopped at stop lights, because the engine continues to run even when the car is not moving. But on with the math:

 

Subtracting 69.4 EV miles lfrom 134 miles results in 64.6 miles.

Dividing 64.6 miles by 3.65 gallons is 17.7mpg, NOT "8-10" miles per gallon.

 

"37 won't do it"

The cost difference between 36.7mpg and 44mpg at $3.999 per gallon (assuming that fuel gets more expensive again soon) is two cents per mile, 9 cents per mile at 44mpg versus 11 cents per mile at 37mpg. For 50,000 business miles per year, two cents per mile is $1,000 annually. If two-cents-per-mile is truly breaking pittcmax's household budget, pittcmax needs a far less expensive, far more efficient means of transport (moped?), or a job that pays better and requires less travel.

Edited December 6, 2014 by kostby

[pittcmax]

So I should accept an almost 20% reduction in economy? I get it You love the car, I did to before the battery went dead.

 

I didn't trade in the Saab, it is still sitting in my driveway. 

 

I am only concerned that I lost nearly 20% of my fuel economy after the battery failed. 

 

And super duper at misquoting me... I said on up hill grades it was getting 8-10 mpg... I guessed at 20-23mpg on flat grades for the ICE. It used to give me 30-35 mpg on a flat highway run... and you have pointed out that i was relatively accurate on my ICE mpg estimates.

 

Would you accept a sudden reduction in fuel efficiency? And the cost difference for me is this:

 

Saab MPG mixed - 30 mpg with Premium Fuel @$3.30

C-Max MPG mixed (prior to dead battery) - 43 mpg with regular fuel @ $3.00

C-Max MPG mixed (after dead battery) - 36.7 mpg with regular fuel @ $3.00

 

Saab 50,000 annual miles $5,501 Fuel Cost (no payments) (+2500 annually in repairs)

C-Max 50,000 annual miles (before battery failure) $3,489 Fuel Cost (+$4000 annually in payments)

C-Max 50,000 annual miles (after battery failure) $4,086 Fuel Cost (+$4000 annually in payments)

 

Is there a small difference... absolutely. Would I rather have my previous job that my travel was 10 months (not all at once) traveling around SE Asia and miss out on seeing my kids and wife... No. 

I want the car that I had before the battery died. not this one that uses a great deal more gas. 

 

I must be the only person you have met that doesn't like when something they bought because they liked it, suddenly and abruptly becomes something they didn't buy after it breaks.  

Edited December 6, 2014 by pittcmax

[ptjones]

All cars lose 10-20% MPG's in the rain depending how bad it is and your numbers don't seem to be out of line. CMAX doesn't get 30mpg with ICE on, on flat ground unless the HVB is charged up. I usually get 20mpg at two bar acceleration at 40-50mph. As your speed goes down mpg's do to. :) 

 

Paul 

[kostby]

 

So I should accept an almost 20% reduction in economy? I get it You love the car, I did to before the battery went dead.

 

I didn't trade in the Saab, it is still sitting in my driveway. 

 

I am only concerned that I lost nearly 20% of my fuel economy after the battery failed. 

 

And super duper at misquoting me... I said on up hill grades it was getting 8-10 mpg... I guessed at 20-23mpg on flat grades for the ICE. It used to give me 30-35 mpg on a flat highway run... and you have pointed out that i was relatively accurate on my ICE mpg estimates.

 

Would you accept a sudden reduction in fuel efficiency? And the cost difference for me is this:

 

Saab MPG mixed - 30 mpg with Premium Fuel @$3.30

C-Max MPG mixed (prior to dead battery) - 43 mpg with regular fuel @ $3.00

C-Max MPG mixed (after dead battery) - 36.7 mpg with regular fuel @ $3.00

 

Saab 50,000 annual miles $5,501 Fuel Cost (no payments) (+2500 annually in repairs)

C-Max 50,000 annual miles (before battery failure) $3,489 Fuel Cost (+$4000 annually in payments)

C-Max 50,000 annual miles (after battery failure) $4,086 Fuel Cost (+$4000 annually in payments)

 

Is there a small difference... absolutely. Would I rather have my previous job that my travel was 10 months (not all at once) traveling around SE Asia and miss out on seeing my kids and wife... No. 

I want the car that I had before the battery died. not this one that uses a great deal more gas. 

 

I must be the only person you have met that doesn't like when something they bought because they liked it, suddenly and abruptly becomes something they didn't buy after it breaks.  

Edited by pittcmax, Yesterday, 03:00 PM.

Well, super duper at yet another useless post under the wrong forum topic.  :)

 

Look. No one here can magically restore your "lost" mpg over the internet just because you continue to post about it here.

 

Instead, take your C-MAX to an authorized Ford service department equipped with the diagnostic tools, and the training, and the experience to properly diagnose it and fix it.

 

If you're not happy with your current dealer, Direct Message Rebecca, the FordService rep in this forum to offer assistance: http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/user/1579-fordservice/

 

UPDATE 12-11-2014:  Tricia is now the FordService rep in this forum.

 

And super duper at misquoting me... I said on up hill grades it was getting 8-10 mpg...

 

Uh, no.

You :airquote: misquoted yourself.

 

You absolutely DID NOT say "on up hill grades" You said "on any grade".  If English is not your native language, I apologize for misunderstanding your improper use of the word "any."

 

 

On any grade the ICE is getting 8-10.

 

 

So if "any" really means "any", then "any" includes uphill, downhill, or perfectly flat, anything and everything in between.

Full Definition of ANY

1

:  one or some indiscriminately of whatever kind: 

 

a  :  one or another taken at random <ask any man you meet>

 

b  :  every —used to indicate one selected without restriction <any child would know that>

2

:  one, some, or all indiscriminately of whatever quantity: 

 

a  :  one or more —used to indicate an undetermined number or amount <have you any money>

 

b  :  all —used to indicate a maximum or whole <needs anyhelp he can get>

 

c  :  a or some without reference to quantity or extent <grateful for any favor at all>

3

a  :  unmeasured or unlimited in amount, number, or extent <any quantity you desire>

 

b  :  appreciably large or extended <could not endure it anylength of time>

 

"Any." Merriam-Webster.com. Merriam-Webster, n.d. Web. 7 Dec. 2014.

<http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/any>.

 

 

 

I must be the only person you have met that doesn't like when something they bought because they liked it, suddenly and abruptly becomes something they didn't buy after it breaks.  

 

You're the only person I've ever met who apparently believes that posting in an internet forum will somehow suddenly and abruptly fix their car.  :)

Edited December 11, 2014 by kostby

[zalusky]

In my case I did not have the dead battery until recently.  One major difference in my case is I had an Apple lightning connector plugged in the storage area and I had recently reached in the area while driving for something.

 

The next morning when the car was dead I looked in there and the other end of the lightning cord was resting up against the metal hump of the cigarette lighter base.  Was it shorting and draining the battery overnight or was this strictly a coincidence?

[ptjones]

In my case I did not have the dead battery until recently.  One major difference in my case is I had an Apple lightning connector plugged in the storage area and I had recently reached in the area while driving for something.

 

The next morning when the car was dead I looked in there and the other end of the lightning cord was resting up against the metal hump of the cigarette lighter base.  Was it shorting and draining the battery overnight or was this strictly a coincidence?

I guess time will tell. :)

 

Paul

[kaptnk228]

Ford fixed our battery problem over one month ago.  Replaced charger and found that the output voltage was around 13.5 V below the spec of 14.3 V.  They then replaced a large fuse element (one with large wires) and the voltage when up to 14.3-15 V.  The fuse was causing the problem.  No warning lights came on when the charger failed.  We now monitor the charging voltage with a small voltmeter in the 12 V plug.  You can test it via the ETM but this is a pain. We can't get a good reading that I believe on the battery voltage.

[ptjones]

Ford fixed our battery problem over one month ago.  Replaced charger and found that the output voltage was around 13.5 V below the spec of 14.3 V.  They then replaced a large fuse element (one with large wires) and the voltage when up to 14.3-15 V.  The fuse was causing the problem.  No warning lights came on when the charger failed.  We now monitor the charging voltage with a small voltmeter in the 12 V plug.  You can test it via the ETM but this is a pain. We can't get a good reading that I believe on the battery voltage.

Why can't you get a good reading?  I get 14.5-15V with the Power Point voltmeter when the car is on and 11.4v-12.5v when it is not. I verified these numbers with hand held Voltmeter. :)

 

Paul

[RobMax]

I LOL'd hard at kostby's replies to pittcmax. Ranting without looking for answers is a sure way to get flamed on an internet forum. I'm on SVTPerformance.com and love laughing at the char-broiled posters I see in there.

Pittcmax, you might also keep in mind winter blends of gas can have an adverse effect on mileage. Did you own the car last winter? The battery issue could be simple correlation, and not cause, of decreased mileage. That being said, did the dealership fully test the dead battery?

And of course, as is always said, ensure you take the vehicle to the dealer once you've eliminated other potential sources of problems besides a dead 12V battery, which doesn't seem likely to cause your particular problem.

 

Reminds me of a story my Dad (mechanic) told me once. Customer came in complaining of a horrible smell in the car, so it must've been the car's fault. Dad confirmed bad smell, opened trunk, discovered an old plastic bag full of decaying asparagus and promptly showed the customer the bag upon returning the car. The dealership billed the customer for time worked, as they should have. Moral here is don't assume the car is at fault, make sure it is before you request assistance. And don't complain, ask. 

Edited December 16, 2014 by RobMax

[banditb17]

Yahoo! After reading the hell you guys have been going through for months on this forum my thoughts were "Boy, I am glad this isn't happening to me".

 

Well, I just went outside to go to work, and my car was dead as a doornail. Ended up working from home today and am charging a booster pack now to give it a jolt as it is in my garage and I can't get at it with cables.

 

I really hope this isn't the start of something more...

[DaveloMA]

This thread is damping my purchase enthusiasm....

[shinytop]

From reading of these forums beginning last March (bought mine in May) most of the problems are with SE's with the standard radio.  I have seen none (could have missed some) from purchasers of SEL's.  I am just over 5K miles and have not had a bit of problem with anything.  Loving this car.  Would not expect your mileage to be what those of us in the south get.  Cold weather seems to be the biggest enemy of high mileage in hybrids.  

[Kelleytoons]

And I have a 2014 SE with no problems (only about 5K miles, though and NOT the standard radio but the upgrade package).

 

Look, if you go on ANY forum you'll see people with problems.  It's like if you visited a hospital -- you'd think there weren't any healthy people in the whole world.

 

People generally come on these forums when they have issues.  Seldom do folks visit to say "Hey, just thought I'd post that everything is fine with me!"  Now, we DO brag about our cars and you'll see that.  But by and large you will only get questions and/or problem postings and that doesn't mean the vast majority of folks are having no problems whatsoever.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Kelleytoons

[DaveloMA]

Alas, I want the base SE, cold weather package, and there's one just like that at my local dealer. Now all I need is a little nerve and some faith.

[SPL Tech]

You traded in a perfectly good Saab 9-3 for a C-MAX Hybrid and now you're feeling used and abused. And now that the car "knows" you're going to lemon-law it, it is burning excessive amounts of fuel just to incite you. Fine. Enjoy your lemon-law buyback. Now please go be upset somewhere else. And have a nice life. :)

 

============

 

I never let facts stand in the way of a good rant. Even if it is in the wrong forum. This is the Batteries forum, not the Fuel Mileage forum. But I digress...

 

The 2014 C-MAX Hybrid is EPA rated at 37mpg highway. pittcmax got 36.7mpg for about 1/4 of a tank?

 

Driving 134 indicated miles using the car's displayed 36.7 miles per gallon, uses a calculated 3.65 gallons of fuel.

 

ICE-only cars gets low mpg numbers (8-10 mpg) when warming up in cold temperatures. Most of them without shut-off/restart also get a glorious 0mpg when warming up in the driveway or stopped at stop lights, because the engine continues to run even when the car is not moving. But on with the math:

 

Subtracting 69.4 EV miles lfrom 134 miles results in 64.6 miles.

Dividing 64.6 miles by 3.65 gallons is 17.7mpg, NOT "8-10" miles per gallon.

 

"37 won't do it"

The cost difference between 36.7mpg and 44mpg at $3.999 per gallon (assuming that fuel gets more expensive again soon) is two cents per mile, 9 cents per mile at 44mpg versus 11 cents per mile at 37mpg. For 50,000 business miles per year, two cents per mile is $1,000 annually. If two-cents-per-mile is truly breaking pittcmax's household budget, pittcmax needs a far less expensive, far more efficient means of transport (moped?), or a job that pays better and requires less travel.

True that cars get 0 MPG while idling. But most newer 4-cyl cars are very efficient at idle fuel consumption. For example, my Jetta TDI only uses about 0.1 - 0.2 gal per hour at idle. The same engine uses about 1.5 gal per hour at 70 MPH.

 

As far as auto-off goes, I am not sure what you are talking about. I am not aware of a single non-hybrid vehicle that auto shuts off at stop lights. Most modern vehicles turn off the fuel injectors while cruising at speed (e.g. downhill on the highway) and so you dont use any fuel, but the vehicle needs to be moving at speed for that feature to engage, and the engine will still continue to spin as the tranny does not disengage, only it's spinning by way of momentum from the driveaxle, not by burning fuel.

 

There is also a negative effect by turning off the injectors, and that is the engine creates drag, essentially creating artificial engine braking. So in other words, if you shift into N, the car will go faster downhill, but then the engine will have to burn fuel to keep the engine at idle. So it's a trade off.

Edited January 3, 2015 by SPL Tech

[Kelleytoons]

Alas, I want the base SE, cold weather package, and there's one just like that at my local dealer. Now all I need is a little nerve and some faith.

 

If it's due to price I can understand, but if you think you won't like some of the other features... I cannot tell you how much nicer the MFT system is over the base, and it's one of my favorite things about Maximis.  And if it's an earlier year (even 2014) you may well get a deal from your dealership.  It never hurts to ask (I thought the upgraded model was out of OUR price range but our dealer worked something out very favorably).

 

Then again, I do understand that things like music in a car and/or handsfree calling aren't at all a factor for some people.  To me, they make the difference between wanting to drive and not.

[drdiesel1]

Don't forget....... When the dealer replaced your DC/DC converter, they had to have the battery disconnected.

This will usually wipe out the KAM and your MPG's will start from ground zero. This is probably why you're

seeing a drop in numbers. As the system plots and fills the memory blocks, you'll come back to the normal

numbers. Starting with a reset KAM in cold weather will always show less mpg readings.

 

Your base number is derived from the stored memory numbers and that included the warm weather driving as well.

It will come back, but it will take some time. I've heard this same complaint over and over. Too bad the dealer didn't

take the time to explain this to you after they worked on your ride. Memory wipes kill everything and the car

will need to relearn/adapt to your driving habits and relearn everything all over. Have fun :happy feet:

Edited January 3, 2015 by drdiesel1

[kostby]

As far as auto-off goes, I am not sure what you are talking about. I am not aware of a single non-hybrid vehicle that auto shuts off at stop lights. 

 

 

 

Standard Stop/Start Makes 2014 Chevy Malibu More Efficient

http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/news.detail.print.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2013/Oct/1009-malibu-startstop.html

 

"There are no buttons to push or procedures to learn with Malibu’s stop/start system. It automatically shuts down the engine when the car comes to a stop under certain driving conditions, such as at a stoplight. The engine automatically restarts when the driver takes his or her foot off the brake."

 

 Ever hear of Google?  :)