plus 3 golfer

I note that the "PID rate" max spec. for the OBDlink MX is: MAXIMUM PARAMETER ID (PID) RATE ~100 PIDs/second for PC & Android I was scanning 14 PIDs from four modules: BECM, BdyCM, SOBDCM (TCM) and PCM all on the HighSpeed CAN. I just spot checked and the worst rate that I found was 14 PIDs at 18 times per second. The best rate I found was 14 PIDs at 27 times per second. The average scan rate for the 14 PIDs was 42.1 msec based on 6,347,605 msec / 150,674 scans which would be 14 PIDs at 23.75 times per second. I wondered why it would take about 3X longer to scan 100 PIDs per second than the same 14 PIDs about seven+ times per second? The MX module should simply be a passthrough interface of the PID to the modules on the CAN as it clearly passed about 330 PIDs per second on average. But the MS CAN is slower than the HS CAN. My guess is that the MX Max rating of 100 PIDs / sec is based on the MS CAN baud rate. A quick search indicates that HS CAN can have a baud rate of up to 1 Mbits/sec depending on cable length and MS CAN has a max baud rate of 125 kbits/sec. Now when comparing the MX module scan rate with my older ELM327 modules, I looked at some older data and could only get about 120 PIDs per second on the old ELM327 compared to 330 on the MX module which is over 2.5 times faster. In addition, the MX module specs show a curent draw of <2 mA when in battery saver mode. I'm fairly sure that one of my other ELM327s had a "sleep mode" that was more like 10 mA. So, leaving the MX plugged in all the time is no issue. For $70 one can get the OBDLink MX and the ForScan APP. and then one can have fun "playing" with the data Also, this is probably $30 less than a trip to a dealer for a "diagnostic scan" only to be told there's nothing wrong with your car. :)

My old adapters did the same - a bluetooth and a wifi which I paid less than $20 for. I decided to get the OBDLink MX for $80 so that I could scan PIDs on both HS and MS CAN automatically, The only issue is that if the software is updated, it "forgets" the settings and according to ForScan, one has to uninstall ForScan, reinstall and set it up again to scan both CANs before initiating the first scan It defaults to HS CAN and can't be changed after the first scan. Looks like its on sale for $60. It virtually work all the time. OBDLink MX Bluetooth OBD-II Scan Tool for Android & Windows

Attached are voltage vs SOC discharge curves for the HVB from the data recorded in the first post. Four ranges of discharge current were graphed with natural log curve fits. I can run charging curves also but it's moot as the curves would be higher than the discharge curves. Typically, battery capacity in Ah is estimated by fully charging a battery and then applying a discharge current that will fully discharge the battery in one hour. The C-Max design capacity is 5 Ah. So, it will take a current of 5 A one hour to fully discharge the battery. The 5 A is referred to as the 1C discharge rate for the HVB. For our lithium ion HVB, one stops discharging at the minimum HVB voltage of 209 V (2.75 V per cell X 76 cells). This results in a rated capacity of 5 Ah. Multipling the 5 Ah by the nominal HVB voltage of 281.2 V (3.75 V per cell X 76 cells) yields the 1.4 kWh HVB rating. Since I can't apply a 5 A continuous load to the HVB nor charge the HVB to it full capacity (100%SOC), I segregated the data into four ranges: a 1C range (0-10 Amps), a 3C range (10-20 Amps, a 15C range (60 - 70 Amps) and about a 24C range (100 - 135 Amps). The SOC of the data ranged from about 35% to 70%. I also put two large yellow circles on the graph indicating the approx. data points from INL battery tests at 1C discharge rate. Bottom line: I believe these tests indicate that my HVB is performing very well. There is likely some capacity loss in my HVB similar to what INL Ah tests show but it doesn't affect performace as it does in the Energi where usable kWh of EV range can be substantially reduced. Based on my curves, I would expect the 30% - 70% SOC range to be available for the life of my car (several hundred thousand miles).

I would assume you'd plug it into the keyless entry rear antenna connector or directly into the Remote Function Actuator module depending on the type of connector on the end. Here's some snips to help.

If you really want to know what is happening, forget the dealer and get ForScan. See this thread. You can also monitor AC compressor load, rpm and so forth. along with power to the 12 V system to see what draw is on the HVB. The AC compressor is very efficient and the algorithm uses pulse width modulation of the high voltage to control average voltage the compressor sees. Thus, it will operate at very low power levels once the cabin is cool. You can also pull up the Accessory Power display in MY VIew on the left hand display and watch what happens with the Climate load and other load (12 V load). In the 3 Phoenix summers (100F+ and full sun), I will see 4-5 kW of climate load for perhaps several minutes before the load drops down to 3, 2, 1 kWs and settles in the 250 W to 400 W range depending on conditions. So, if your climate load doesn't drop once the cabin is cool, something is amiss. Next hotter day with cabin hot, turn on AC and see what happens. ;)

Recently there seems to be members that question whether their HVB is "OK" as they watch the battery symbol and believe that the HBV isn't performing as it should. I have suggested many times to get ForScan and record data. Then, after the fact one can look at the data and assess how their HBV is performing. I understand that everyone may not have the knowledge or excel skills to do the analysis but IMO, this is the only way one can determine how their car is performing. The dealer will be no help. One simply needs to record three PIDs with ForScan: BATT_CHAR [sOC] (%) BAT_PACK_VOLT(Volt) BATCURBECM(Amper) One then computes the energy going into and out of the HVB. The BECM also does this ("columb counting"). Once the ForScan data is uploaded into Excel, the volts are multiplied by the Amps and multiplied by the change in time between time stamps. Typically with my ELM327 I will see about 25+ scans per second which would be 25 rows of excel data per second of recording. So, if the volts are 250 V and the current is 100 A and the difference in time stamps on two successive rows is 40 msec (1/25), then the energy out of the HVB would be 1000 Wsec. If the next 39 time stamp intervals were the same volts and current, then the total energy out of the HVB would be 40,000 Wsec. So, one simply acciumulates the energy flow for each time stamp period. The cumulative energy in the HVB will decrease (SOC decreases) for positive Amps out of the HVB and increases (SOC increases) for power flow into the HVB (PID shows negative current). The first chart shows the SOC and accumulted energy flow (kWh) over about 150000 scans, about 6000 plus seconds (over 1 hour and 40 minutes) of driving 75-78 mph on I17 between Flagstaff and Phoenix - downhill about 6000 ft. So, the largest change is kWh is 0.514 kWh between about 1291 and 2916 seconds. The SOC went from 34.2% to 70.7%. A change of 36.5% in SOC represents 0.514 kWh. 0.514 kWh divided by 36.5% = 1.397 kWh -- the energy capacity of the HVB. Pretty close to 1.4 kWh. :) You can pick other points on the graph and do the same calculations. The second chart shows the error in the estimated SOC of the HVB based on the "columb counting" and the PID SOC. As one can see assuming 1.4 kWh HVB capacity, the estimated SOC never exceeds 0.35% difference. Over the total time period the difference (error) is virtually zero from start to finish. I don't know how much HVB capacity I have lost but the Ford algorithms continue to allow full use of around a 30% to 70% range of the initial 1.4 kWh of range. Idaho National Lab shows their test vehicles lost around 6% of capacity at about 105,000 miles (my current mileage). I'm going to continue to analyze the data I collected and will post voltage vs SOC curves trying to see where the knee of the HVB discharge curve might be. With 150,000 data point, I can segregate the data based on discharge rate and develop a series of curves and compare against INL test data. I still believe that we have little to worry about with respect to HBV longevity in our C-Max Hybrid. To this date I know of no one that has had a HVB capacity issue. In fact, several members have over 200k miles and still get great FE. Paul (ptjones) you need to keep that baby going so we can see how far the HVB will go. ICE may need major work before the HVB. BTW, I need a faster PC. I have my sons 6 year old gaming desktop. It's still fast but running spreadsheets with 150,000 rows and 10 columns takes several seconds to complete. But the graphs are the real time consumming functions - minutes sometimes especially curve fits.

OK.Here's some snips showing how to remove glove box and side console panel. Interesting, that the 2014 side panel (my pic above) is different from the 2013 side panel below.

Are you trying to remove the plastic piece on the left passenger side center console?

Impossible. The internal combustion engine (ICE) must run to charge the high voltage battery so the car can run in EV mode. Put up the Empower screen in the left hand display. You may see a white color curved bar (ICE running), a blue colored curved bar (EV), a blue outlined curved bar (ICE on/off threshold). So, if in EV mode, blue ouline is higher than blue bar. If blue outline drops below blue bar, ICE comes on. If ICE is on, blue outline is below white bar. Back off throttle to lower white bar below blue outline and EV is on. As State of Charge of the HVB falls, blue outline bar will drop. It's a matter of pulse and glide technique, using hills to your advantage, and efficiently charging the HVB. Practice amd dedication will increase EV mode operation and better fuel economy.

SS, I believe the snip below is why TPMS didn't trigger for 10 miles. Yep, ForScan is it. I certainly don't want to drive 20 minutes before being notified my tire pressure is dropping. S4.2 TPMS detection requirements. The tire pressure monitoring system must: (a) Illuminate a low tire pressure warning telltale not more than 20 minutes after the inflation pressure in one or more of the vehicle's tires, up to a total of four tires, is equal to or less than either the pressure 25 percent below the vehicle manufacturer's recommended cold inflation pressure, or the pressure specified in the 3rd column of Table 1 of this standard for the corresponding type of tire, whichever is higher; ... S4.4 TPMS malfunction. (a) The vehicle shall be equipped with a tire pressure monitoring system that includes a telltale that provides a warning to the driver not more than 20 minutes after the occurrence of a malfunction that affects the generation or transmission of control or response signals in the vehicle's tire pressure monitoring system. The vehicle's TPMS malfunction indicator shall meet the requirements of either S4.4(b) or S4.4©.

NO, one cannot change the trigger level (safety). The procedure simply allows the Body Control Module to relearn the positions of the sensors so the PIDs identify the correct wheel position when a DTC is thrown. I use this procedure every time I rotate tires.

Usually the TPMS trigger point is around 25% below placard.(don't know what Ford uses). With placard at 38 PSI, the trigger point would then be around 26.5 psi. A few years ago, my wife got the low pressure message about 1.5 miles from home and quickly returned home. Pressure was at 22 psi via ForScan when she got home. No air leaking past screw at that time. Perhaps, it took 10 miles of driving in colder conditions for psi to fall below threshold. TPMS is continuous with about one RF transmission per minute when speed is over 20 mph. So, there should be no delay of 10 miles if psi is below threshold. Other possibility is batteries are failing (colder weather) / some RF interference. BCM will only alarm for failed RF transmitter if no signal received in 18 minutes and speed greater than 20 mph (could this be equivalent to 10 miles?). It appears the dash alarm is the same for low pressure or no RF signal.

The fill / check plug is one in the same. So, you fill until fluid overflows out the fill / check plug hole.

Exactly. Several modules remain active after shutdown for a period of time to monitor HVB disconnect. I believe there would be many DTCs and likely the car would not start if there were issues with the HVB disconnecting / connecting to vehicle. Also, the HVB is made up of 76 cells in series (individual cell voltages are additive). I can't think of a scenario where 1 in X times, the voltage of several cells or group of cells voltage would fall sufficiently to drop the SOC estimate and then work "normally" the other times. There are monitors of cell voltages, PIDs of performance, and DTCs if out of range.

There's a youtube video.

I see changes all the time in SOC from overnight shutdown to morning startup. I've attached a thumbnail of a graph by NREL based on curve fit of actual testing of a Li Ion battery. Note how much the Ah capacity changes with temperature of the battery. I've also attached the actual SOC (as determined by the C-Max algorithms) of the HVB compared to the displayed SOC (battery symbol on dash display). I believe one could easily see a 10C (18F) drop in HVB temperature overnight. Assume the drop corresponds to a 4% drop in maximum capacity. Assume when you shut down the car in the evening, your battery symbol was at 50% which corresponds to an actual SOC = 45%. In the morningy assuming you lost 4% of maximum SOC, your actual SOC would be offset 4% or at 41% on the X axis of the graph. That 41% will be displayed on the battery symbol as about 38% capacity left in the battery. So based on the battery symbol, it appears that the HVB has lost about 12% when it only lost 4%. Now, assume a 20 C drop in HVB temperature and your display showed about 40% SOC when shutdown in the evening. Going through the same as above the display will likely show less than 20% of the battery symbol filled in the morning. It looks like you've lost over 20% SOC when you only lost about 8 of actual SOC. Having said the above, it doesn't take much EV operation to heat the HVB up and SOC to rise due to temperature effect. :) Bottom line is that you can't tell much simply watching the Battery Symbol. My suggestion -- get ForScan and record relevant HVB data at shutdown and startup and analyze what is going on. You should be able to see how HVB temperature affects SOC and look for any anomolies. Also, HVB discharge current affects SOC. The higher the discharge current, the lower the SOC. What is discharge current when you arrive at home (likely very low) and what is discharge current when started and first driven (likely higher than when arriving home).

RAMMOUNT.com has all types of mounts. I have an X-grip, locking twist suction mount for side window with extension arm to get phone just off the left side of steering wheel. Look at my pic gallery.

Has your 12V battery ever been replaced? The message in the center is normal But with a new battery AND the 12 V battery age reset to zero days when the new battery was installed, the message will take 10 minutes to display if you leave the car on. Dealer failed to reset mine when my battery failed at 30 months. Otherwise, as the battery ages, the time until the message is displayed decreases. So If your battery is original and no age reset, the message will come on quickly. Get your battery tested. The SOC will decline with colder temps and increase with warmer temps all other things being the same. So, when you shut down after running, the HVB will be hot (above the in car temp) especially if using EV+ and when you startup in the morning, should be at the ambient surounding temp. Your HVB is likely OK. I assume you mean the gas engine is very rough at times and you have no check engine light. That sounds more like a fuel / ignition issue. Do you use Top Tier gas? Try a double dose of techron or other fuel injection cleaner and see if the problem goes away.

Here's a graph from recorded ForScan data on our short trip to dine out. Note when in LOW, ICE is ON (spinning) when coasting until speed drops to about 12 mph (around 45 seconds) where it shuts OFF.and RPM drops down to zero. Also, note that when I shifted to Neutral at 47 mph (around 65 seconds), ICE shut OFF and RPM droped to zero very quickly. However, when speed was 50 mph (around 237 seconds) and I shifted to Neutral, ICE RPM dropped from about 2500 to 1500 rpm and then gradually declined to about 900 rpm and 9 mph before ICE shut OFF.

Yes, when shifting to L whether the engine is hot or cold, ICE spins in the Hybrid. My guess is the Energi is the same. The quickest way to find out is to put the tach up in MY VIEW and watch what happens when one shifts to L. Could someone with an Energi see what happens in all modes when shifting to L? I'll put up a graph of ForScan data showing this in another post. As far as the grade assist, the algorithm uses regen first (assuming HVB has room) then engine braking to control speed. It doesn't take much of a steeper down hill to fill the Hybrid HVB. As long as one is not going very fast down the steeper hill, engine braking usually will control speed extremely well. I have gone down some steeper grades at 65 - 70 mph where engine braking wasn't sufficent to control speed and had to use friction brakes.

Yes, you do put more charge in the HVB by shifting to Low but you stop in a significantly shorter distance than you would with Normal Regen Coasting (which is simulating normal engine braking), or shifting into Neutral. So, if one uses LOW, one needs to account for the energy required to cover the difference in distance from Normal Regen Coasting or coasting in Neutral. For example, I just ran some tests and recorded data with ForScan. To keep it simple I ran the test from 24 mph to 10 mph results in the following covered distances. Distances were computed by integating speed over time with ForScan data. Of course, if one can apply brakes to get 100% brake score in shortest distance, then the data should move towards Low Coasting. Low Coasting = 95 feet Normal Regen Coasting = 554 feet Coasting in Neutral = 1155 feet The estimated net energy stored based on integrating current flow in/out of HVB is: Low Coasting = 11.4 Wh Normal Regen Coasting = 7.8 Wh If one assumes 250 Wh per mile, the 11.4 Wh of energy stored from Low Coasting would be equivalent to about 241 feet of EV. The 7.8 kWh would be equivalent to about 164 feet of EV. So, Low Coasting comes up short by 382 feet total compared to Normal Regen Coasting (164+554) - (241+95) = 382 feet. Extra energy is needed to cover the 382 feet. At 250 Wh per miles, 382 feet requires about 18 Wh of energy. Bottom line: Regeneration is not as efficient as most think it is. It's much better to coast in neutral or with normal regen and allow as much kinetic energy to move the car rather than be converted to electrical energy. Use the kinetic energy of the moving vehicle to the fullest extent before applying the brakes to stop (more regen or friction braking). The downside of such is one's time (the reason I don't coast in Neutral). I do coast in Drive when timing lights. I see no benefit to use Low to increase regen other than to shorten travel time. :)

Just changed my plugs with about 71k ICE miles and 33k EV miles. Well Ford you could at least torqued the plugs correctly. Take a look at the 3rd plug from the left. It took virtually no torque to loosen the plug. There was oil on the threads and clearly “baked” on body. The other 3 were tight but I'm not sure they were torqued correctly either (spec. 106 lb in) I've never had a car where the factory plugs were so easy to loosen. Total time was about 45 minutes. Gaps were about 0.053 inches. So, minimal gap wear. Let's see if FE will go up. I've been blaming FE hit on tires. Also, next time one changes their air filter, one may want to remove the ignition coils and check spark plug torque. ?

Here's another graph. I want to note that I only ran th AC for this test as at these ambient temps and speeds, I would normally just crack the front window and back window slightly. But at higher speeds like in GS1, it's way to noisy to open the windows at higher speeds or in heavy traffic. GS3 Graph: 10/25/18 8:30 am, ambient upper 60s-70F. AAT = Ambient Air Temperature (*F)ECT = Engine Coolant Temperature (*F)VSS = Vehicle Speed Sensor (mph)GRILL_A_CMD = Commanded Grille Shutter A Position (%)GRILL_A_INF = Inferred Grille Shutter A Position (%)ACP = Air Compressor Pressure (psi)IAT = Intake Air Temperature (*F)I replaced AAT with IAT in my recording of data. I have noted several interesting observations. AC is ON initially, turned off at 7:53, and back ON at 14:43. Speed passes through 50 mph four times with AC on. Note grilling opening decreases when speed goes above about 50 mph and increases when speed falls below 50 mph. At about 10:25 I accelerate about 2 mph and back off pedal to allow EV to kick in since I noted the HVB had plenty of charge to run in EV for some time (about 48 seconds). IAT increases because ICE is off and no air is entering intake. ECT falls because ICE is off, and shutters close when ECT falls to about 192F. ECT begins to rise again as EV ends and ICE starts. At 12:33 ECT climbs above 192F and shutters open to about 14% at ECT of 201F. Near the end of the graph, ACP rises substantially even though shutters are virtually wide open to allow to allow more air to the condenser. I will begin monitoring cooling fan operation and other AC data as I want to get a handle on AC load. I do watch “Climate Control Load” in the left dash display in My View. I know that after cabin reaches conditioned steady state, AC load is rather small even at high ambient temps (100F+). At start of conditioning cabin, climate load can be around 4 to 5 kW as AC. Once SS is reached, climate load seems to be between 250 - 500 Watts.

The purpose of this thread is to document how the grille shutters operate under a variety of different on road conditions on my 2013 C-Max SEL with CSP 13B07 programming / calibration done in June 2013. I have the ForScan App and an OBDLink MX Bluetooth Scan Tool to record real-time data as I drive. I will upload the recorded data and attach a graph of the pertinent data for discussion, analysis, and comparison. I have grille covers but rarely use them in Phoenix. I will primarily record the listed PIDs below but can always add more. I believe these are the significant “drivers” that the shutter control algorithm uses to command the shutters. I not sure what the Grill_A_INF PID is used for. It may be a calculated value from many sources of vehicle data to “infer” what the shutter position actually is, perhaps the position feedback from the shutter control module, or something else. According to the Service Manual, upon every startup, the grille shutters are calibrated by operating the shutters from one full position to the other full position (one can hear / see them operate). AAT = Ambient Air Temperature (*F)ECT = Engine Coolant Temperature (*F)VSS = Vehicle Speed Sensor (mph)GRILL_A_CMD = Commanded Grille Shutter A Position (%)GRILL_A_INF = Inferred Grille Shutter A Position (%)ACP = Air Compressor Pressure (psi)GS1 Data Graph (attached) - 10/25/18 around 6 am, clear, no wind, sunrise 6:39 am. Initial ECT = 81F in garage. From the left Time Stamp (TS), the shutters upon startup, close as AC is off (yellow line) showing low equalized refrigerant psi. I pushed the AC button and the AC pressure increases to over 150 psi and grille shutters immediately open TS 0.67. I cycled the AC button off and back on between TS 0.67 and just after TS 1.00. ACP drops when AC off and shutters cycle full closed to full open. AC is left on for about 4.2 minutes until TS 5:17. Note that as ACP falls grille opening decreases but also appears to react to (+ and -) once ACP reaches an oscillating state (about 115 psi to 100 psi) as AC cabin set point temp of 74F was being reached. At TS 4:05 there is an abrupt closing of the shutters from about 67% to near 30%. This appears at a speed of around 50 mph. I have seen this many times and believe that is the point where Ford believes the aerodynamic benefits become more important than compressor load reduction benefits and decrease the shutter opening. At TS 4:59 I got on I10 accelerating to 84 mph to merge. I set the eco-cruise to around 75- 76 mph (speed limit is 75mph) with slight accelerations / decelerations when passing. ECT continues to climb and reaches a plateau of 180F at around TS 450. The cooling thermostat begins to open at 180F and is fully open, IIRC, at 202F per spec. At about TS 6.92, ECT begins to climb again up to about 192F and then grille shutters begin to open. I have also seen this many time between around 192 – 197F. ETC continues to climb to 206 – 207 F where this recording ends with no further opening of shutters. I still had several miles at these speeds. When I got to about 10 miles from the airport where I started to experience congestion. Fortunately, I could use the car pool lane. The next graph will pick up about 10 miles from the airport.Summary GS1 I have highlighted in red what I believe are two important points in the control algorithm. We will watch these as I add more graphs. I also believe that adding grille would help FE because ECT would rise faster and likely slightly higher plus there’s a lot more driving at speeds of greater than 50 mph where the aero benefits of covers will be better than closed grille covers (how much is the question). The downside would likely be slightly increased ACP load up to 50 mph. But at AAT of 61F or so, it would be minimal.

Correct you don't need a video. What I'm going to do is to start a new topic just for shutter operation as there will likely be lots of graphs posted (no videos :)). I took my wife to the airport today and also dog to vet. So, I recorded a couple hours worth of data at low early morning ambient temps (61-65F) at speeds up 75+mph and slower speed through develpment. We can look at lower and higher speed data under the new topic. with and without AC. I will also continue to record at higher ambient temps. I believe the charts will all look similar except shutter opening generally start out higher with higher ambient temps. Turning on AC kicks the opening even higher. Like I have always said grille covers do increase temps and aerodymaics and thus FE. I don't like running grille covers at high ambient temps with AC on as ECT will generally be 220F+- at interstate speeds and higher going up steeper grades. The highest I've seen was 234F. Yes, I did seal my grille covers with tape on several round trips from TN to Pittsburgh in colder weather but don't recall exact effect on temp but temps were higher and tape was a pain to remove I searched for the shutter PIDs also before I got ForScan for several of the other Apps I had for my smartphone with no luck. You might hit up the Forscan forum. I believe someone asked Forscan for PIDs (not specifically for shutters). I can't remember their answer but I don't think they gave any out. But some member might know.