plus 3 golfer

Does Ford still offer to upgrade the software? You can get software updated to latest. But unless it is a “safety related” update, one generally has to pay for it as most 2013 updates have likely expired. How do I find out if the car was already upgraded? A Ford dealer can tell you whether there is any outstanding Customer Service Programs or Safety Recalls. To ensure you have the latest, the dealer would have to reinstall latest software on several modules. Ford may have made software changes in later MYs but the 2013 MY doesn’t require it. Can I read out the version somewhere? FORScan shows data on all modules installed. See attached. I’ve had all CSPs and Recalls performed on my vehicle yet there are likely later versions of the software which the 2013 MY is not eligible to be installed free. Or can I assume that with a mileage of 45 mpg the upgrade was done already because I would never get that good with the old software? If its the old software, can I expect a huge change in the mileage? I have no idea what software issue could lower FE significantly. Ford did a few things that may help a few tenths of a mpg.

We have been referencing the attached for a long time. AFAIK, no one has reported a HVB failure. But, I believe there was one reported issue with the wiring to the cells which required replacement of the HVB wiring harness which is not covered by the Unique Hybrid Components warranty (8 yrs, 100k miles). I don’t recall the costs, but battery needs removed to do work. As shown on the attachment, Ford projects the HVB to be above 80% SOC for over 200k miles (green line) based on lab tests. Based on actual field test of NiHybride HVBs, Ford says the NiHybride HVB performs better in actual use than the lab testing.

Try F31 in the rear junction box behind panel on left wall in hatch area. Make sure you check for continuity of the fuse with ohm meter and that there is 12 Volts on hot side of fuse with car on.

We hope the “charging mode” will do this and not disregards efficiency simply to fill the HVB. I can envision if it’s done properly, that the red and yellow dots in the graph which are below the cyan dots will “move up” towards the cyan dots and the mostly red and maybe some yellow dots above the cyan dots will “move down“ by using EV to supply some of the torque to bring ICE into the blue dot area. If too much charge is accumulating in HVB (you would want charge depleted before plugging in), one could turn it off and run in EV. Otherwise, it’s just a “gimmick” - a trick or device intended to attract attention, publicity, or business. Ford has never done this - have they? ? I will note that in normal daily driving, most likely would have no need / use of the charging mode as the average daily commute is around 16 miles one way. I believe if it works like above, it could improve FE several % on the one or two round trips we make every week of 100 + miles and on the several longer trips we take each year. I hope once the Escape plugin is available for testing and review, the reviewers will give feed back on using the charging mode.

If Sync hangs up again, pull fuse 79 out for several seconds and replace. It’s in the fuse panel under the glove box. I even showed my wife how to do it in case radio hangs up (only hung up one time). Yes, the warranty extension of Sync was only for 5 years (No mile restriction)from original date of purchase. So, dealer will charge for everything now. $200 seems a little high but they probably will update all modules (probably at least 3: PCM, DCDC, and APIM) to latest software revision. How often do you plug-in to charge? As there is a separate DCDC converter that keeps The 12 V battery charged when plugged in while charging the High Voltage Battery. But I believe once HVB is fully charged, charging of the 12 V battery stops even when charging cable is still plugged in. I’ve always wondered whether a module might fail to shutdown after charging HVB is done and drain the 12 V battery. If you can, I’d remove charging cable after charging is done. Also, you might want to hook a 12V battery charger up frequently (say once a week) to ensure the battery has been fully charged to its capacity.

So you do have a battery drain that results in a no start (dead 12V battery)? Batteries can fail unexpectedly but every 6-12 months indicates an issue. There is a Ford CSP 15B04 which expired in 2016 for the dead battery issue where Ford updated software and TSB 16-0157 for the Energi where Ford checked wiring for a battery drain. Hopefully, these were performed. In addition, there is a battery age parameter that should be reset every time a new battery is installed. There have been Ford dealers that fail to do this. This resets the Battery Monitoring System and thus the PCM can determine the appropriate set point voltages used in charging the 12 V battery. There is a manual procedure which can be preformed which I have performed and it did reset battery age. You might want to do it. See link below. One module that is known to be problematic is the APIM (aka SYNC Module) which can lock up / not shut down properly and cause battery drain.

She can take it to Ford Quick Lane (no appointment needed) and likely within an hour they will test the battery for free. The will give you a printout of the battery health. Battery is on special for $130 plus installation. Also, when was the last time the FOB battery was replaced? Easy and cheap to DIY. Videos likely on YouTube or look in Owners manual.

Here's an example of how hybrid operations improves FE. Attached are 2 charts for the Prius 1.8 liter engine. The second is a BSFC curve which shows torque and rpm on and superimposed are Brake Specific Fuel Consumption Curves. The units are grams/kWh of fuel consumed at specific rpm and torque. The goal of hybrid operation is to improve the operating characteristics such that BSFC moves from a high number to a lower number for the same rpm. What you will notice is that at a fixed rpm, ICE can operate at different efficiency based on the amount of torque which it supplies. So, what the hybrid algorithm does is to increase ICE torque from the base torque needed to propel the car. The increased ICE torque is used to generate electric power which can be stored in the HVB. In addition, the fuel used by doing this decreases in g/kWh for propelling the car. So, torque required to propel the car hasn't changed but fuel to propel the car is less. Now, fuel is needed to supply torque to the generator but it is at a very efficient BSFC point. There are losses in converting the mechanical power to electrical power for storage and reuse. But, the overall gain in efficiency via hybrid operation is positive resulting in increased FE. Of course the greatest benefit is when EV is used on initial acceleration from a stop so that ICE can be shut down. ICE is very inefficient for use on initial acceleration from a stop. In essence, energy stored in the HVB when ICE ran very efficiently replaces the energy that would have been required using ICE to accelerate from a stop. This nets a fuel savings. The same happens on highway cruising especially if ICE torque is very low and EV can be used instead. The first "colored dots" graph shows actual operating data. Assume engine rpm is 2000 rpm and torque is 60 (likely going down a grade) as this is not an efficient operating point. The algorithm can spin the generator to maintain the 2000 rpm need to keep speed constant (negative split mode). Lets's is the generator can add 400 effective rpm to the output shaft and ICE rpm can be reduced by 400 to 1600 rpm. The ICE is still supplying 60 Nm of torque. So, now ICE efficiency has improved somewhat but still not very efficient. But since we have a HVB with room to store additional energy, rather than operate in negative split mode the algorithm operates in positive split mode by increasing load on ICE by generating electricity with the generator. Engine rpm will have to increase from 2000 rpm somewhat say to 2400 rpm and assume the generator is consuming 30 Nm of load. ICE is now operating in the "cyan dot" at 2400 rpm and 90 Nm or the most efficient region of the BSFC.

When you are coasting (take your foot off of pedal) ICE does not run except for the conditions I described previously in another thread. Max AC, heat, warm up engine, and so forth. So, once car reaches normal conditions are you saying that ICE runs in the Energi when you take your foot of pedal? We are not talking about regeneration by the traction motor when coasting which is normal. I have never read anywhere that the Energi can be charged by selection of a mode which will keep ICE running and charge the HVB. If it's possible please post how its done.

Exactly, as I should have said "at most" 35-40%, as Toyota has smaller none hybrid engines that supposedly approach those numbers. Also, the Prius 1.8 liter engine has very high thermal efficiency. "Another industry benchmark is Toyota’s retuned high-volume 1.8L 4-cyl. Most engines have a thermal efficiency of about 35%, with the best a few points higher. By continuously combustion, heat management and reducing friction, the Atkinson-based 2ZR-FXE in the Prius is the first gasoline engine in the world to achieve maximum thermal efficiency of 40%, Toyota says." In addition, the reason hybrid operations improve overall FE improves is that ICE is not operated in areas of the BSFC map were efficiency is poor. This is why hybrids get more mpg out of a gallon of fuel than the same car with a conventional ICE. There is no magic just physics - goal is to always operate ICE at its maximum thermal efficiency. We don't know what the thermal efficiency of the Escape ICE is but we do know that if we can operate the vehicle in Hybrid mode more efficiently, FE will improve. https://newatlas.com/toyota-atkinson-engines-improved-thermal-fuel-efficiency/31615/#:~:text=The larger 1.3-liter Atkinson,thermal efficiency of 38 percent.

The assumption is that one has to operate in hybrid mode (EV only battery capacity is depleted) and that one would not use charging mode simply to fill the plug-in HVB, In hybrid operation, all energy comes from the fuel Thus, one wants to minimize the fuel cost between wall charging. It’s not about comparing cost of wall power vs fuel cost. ICE has to be used to burn the fuel to operate the vehicle in hybrid mode. There’s no other way even though converting the energy in the fuel with ICE is only maybe 35-40 % efficient. There are many times when my hybrid battery is virtually charged full by ICE (like when on level roads or going down a longer slight downgrade) and one runs in negative split mode. Negative split mode is not a preferred mode as one is not reaping the benefit of hybrid operation. ICE rpm drops by spinning generator to supply rpm to keep car at same speed but with very little load on ICE, ICE is still likely out of its most efficient operating range. Yes, one can back off pedal and drive in EV mode depleting charge and start the process again. But, is that the best use of EV? If one had more battery storage, ICE could pick up some charging load instead of operating in negative split mode and perhaps operate more efficiently. The added EV would then be used where one would get the most benefit where ICE otherwise might have had to be used very inefficiently. There have been several research papers written on optimization of a plug-in by operating ICE to charge the HVB, propel car, and provide traction motor power to assist propelling car without using HVB - perhaps using ICE for all at the same time. The issue is that current algorithms currently have no look ahead, predictive function. So, assumptions have to be made in attempting such optimization. By adding a charging mode available to the driver, the driver can attempt to use his predictive skills in the optimization process.

You should not connect load “directly” across the battery terminals because the negative battery cable has a Battery Management System current sensor to measure current into an out of the battery. The BMS integrates this flow over time to estimate battery Ah losses for use in SOC estimation, charging algorithm, load shed programs and so forth. Thus, the amp positive can be connected to the battery terminal. But the amp ground should be connected to chassis ground not the negative terminal of the battery. So now when the DCDC converter is not supplying power to all connected load including charging the battery (like when turning ignition off and continue playing music), the BMS will know the current flowing out of the battery due to the amp.

Regeneration is capturing energy that is otherwise lost. This charging mode runs ICE to charge the HVB which one can’t do in the Energi. You would likely not use the charging mode until the EV range was low, then only charge when efficient to do so and only to get enough EV range to get to wall power. I assume the charging mode will run ICE at its most efficient points on the BSFC map taking into account road load by varying charging load to achieve this. This would be essentially no different than normal hybrid operation except the entire battery apparently could be recharged in this manner. We don’t yet know how the algorithm works but it apparently gives another tool to use to increase fuel economy and lower overall fuel cost. I can foresee switching modes frequently (likely based on speed and terrain) for most efficient results. I believe with practice and FE feedback one can increase FE using the charging mode (hypermilers should like this feature). I would love to run tests and analyze the data to evaluate the charging mode effectiveness. But I don’t need to replace my C-Max yet and then I don’t know whether I’d replace it with the Escape PHEV.

Here's the 2020 Escape Hybrid and Plugin Emergency Response Guide. I note that the 12 V battery appears to be relatively easy to remove compared to the C-Max. Remove spare tire and then a 4 bolt spare tire holder bracket covering the 12 volt battery. 2020_Escape_ERG (1).pdf

The HVB is 14.4 kWh. My guess is the usable EV kWh are likely at least 10 and maybe as high as 11 kWh. So, that would put the miles / kWh in the range of 3.3 - 3.7 miles/kWh. It's likely very doable if one keeps speed down and little to no cabin heating / cooling. With hypermiling some will likely reach 50 mile EV range. I also note that there is a drive mode that allows charging the HVB while driving. This "charging" mode could be very useful to keep ICE in its "sweet spot" at low to moderate speeds (when wall power will not be available for many miles) to replenish the HVB EV kWh. Seems like this would work well and efficiently in city and suburban driving for trips significantly longer than 37 miles. Maybe Ford plans to implement an "autonomous charging mode" algorithm based on ones planed trip route, traffic and climate conditions! Might as well go all the way with autonomous driving.? Paul, when you get your Escape PHEV, you are going to have to play around with this charging mode.

I believe ETM does not store all DTCs for the car but only data which affect the instrument panel displays (IPC). The code C46B86 is U046B:86 and relates to invalid compass data from the GPS module. I and others have had DTCs which were not stored by ETM. If the Engine light is on, go to Autozone or another auto store and they should be able to read most Ford codes. But IMO, if you really want to access DTCs and data from you C-Max, get the FORScan App for smartphones and an OBDII adapter to connect to the OBDII port to access the data. Search FORScan under my name here. U046B:86 Invalid Data Received From Global Positioning System Module: Signal Invalid This DTC sets when the IPC receives invalid compass data from the GPSM . RETRIEVE and REPAIR all non-network Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) in the GPSM . REFER to: Information and Entertainment System (415-00A Information and Entertainment System - General Information - Vehicles With: AM/FM/CD/SYNC, Diagnosis and Testing). REFER to: Information and Entertainment System (415-00B Information and Entertainment System - General Information - Vehicles With: AM/FM/CD/SYNC/Touchscreen Display, Diagnosis and Testing). https://forscan.org/home.html

Actually after the Federal Tax Credit on the Energi in Dec. 2012, it wasn't much more than a Hybrid SEL. I really wanted to buy an Energi but given its slightly smaller hatch space, a premium over the Hybrid, and the known issue with the Nissan Leaf in hot climates in late 2012, I went with the Hybrid. I knew at that time (based on the Leaf and my research) that I would have to limit my number of times charging especially in the summer in Phoenix area (my garage doesn't get much below 100F when low temps are around 90F. I also knew that Ford used air cooling of the HVB. So, my estimates were that to mitigate HVB capacity fade, I would never recover the cost difference between the Hybrid and Energi with EV wall power in a reasonable time period (I used 5 years). But if there is a silver lining, the Energi can still be used just like a Hybrid as it is a great car. But it is frustrating that Ford couldn't have done something even after a few years to help mitigate capacity fade. I believe it would have been relatively easy for Ford to modify software and add a toggle in the left hand display to limit charging to say 80 to 90% of the 7.6 kWh capacity and inform owners of the consequences of charging fully frequently and during high temperatures. Yes, one might lose say 5 miles of range by using the toggle, but there's at least 6 months where one could likely fully charge overnight with minimal capacity fade. Of course wouldn't do that because they would be admitting to a "bad design" and Energi sales would tank because the "reasonable true" range in hot climates would also tank. What I really find amazing is that Ford continued to sell the Energi to uninformed buyers through 2017 and still selling Fusion Energis albeit with a larger 9 kWh HVB. Larryh on the Fusion Energi forum has this great thread on the HVB in 2016. Here's an excerpt from it. Now consider someone in Phoenix, AZ. During the summer, the HVB temperature will be around 45 C and during the winter around 27 C. At 100% SOC, that corresponds to capacity fades rates of -7.4e-3 and -4.8e-3 (the value for 45 C is off the chart so I have to guess). Assuming 50% of the time is winter and 50% is summer, the average degradation rate is the average of those two numbers or -6.1e-3/sqrt(day). At that rate, the battery capacity degradation will reach 20% in 2.9 years. The actual degradation will be greater than 20% after 2.9 years since I have not included degradation due to cycling. A test of the Nissan LEAF driven in Phoenix, AZ can be found here: https://avt.inl.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/vehiclebatteries/FastChargeEffects.pdf. In this test, the actual battery degradation was 25% after 1.5 years. Cycling was probably responsible for 8% of the 25% degradation. https://www.fordfusionenergiforum.com/topic/4121-hvb-degradation/#comments

In the left hand display, go to MY VIEW and set it up to monitor accessory power. I don’t know what the algorithm considers “max A/C load”. But I have seen up to around 5 kW of climate load and ICE is on. I never monitored to determine what climate load turns ICE off. Once the cabin reaches set point temp the climate load will generally be less than 500 Watts. So, now you should be able to determine if climate load is causing ICE on and whether you get the clunk.

The following are reasons ICE may be on while you are coming to a stop and then perhaps suddenly shut down because the reason causing ICE to be on was no longer present. Could this cause a shudder (shaking) as ICE kicks off and back on on startup? Also, when applying brake ICE is turned off but for the ICE on conditions below. • The engine will be off unless it needs to be on for reasons other than tractive power (Max A/C, vacuum, catalyst temp, heat, purge, low SOC) I see ICE on in AZ upon startup due to Max A/C virtually all the time when car is left out in sun and temps over 100F. It might be several minutes before Max A/C is reduced. What happens is that ICE runs generator to both charge HVB if needed and to supply power to the A/C compressor directly. When stopped, ICE turns off and power comes from the HVB to run compressor. But, I've never experienced any shudder during this ICE on (moving), ICE off (stopped), ICE on moving. I'm struggling to find any rationale for the shaking when coming to a stop and starting up again other than mechanical.

1) If ECT is above a threshold (around 130 F maybe lower down to 100F), ICE shuts down when you take your foot off accelerator (no spark or fuel to engine). With foot off accelerator, the traction motor provides regeneration to simulate engine braking of a normal car. Once speed is under around 5 mph, regeneration stops and friction braking takes over to stop car. Any clunking / shaking at this time is not ICE. The clunking / shaking is more likely associated with stuff like loose caliper bolt, worn suspension and the like (something moving / rubbing) but maybe an ABS sensor (but there are checks to detect whether sensors are working and within limits). 2) I don't know the algorithm used but if ECT is below a threshold, ICE will continue to run until virtually stopped or at least until rpm is under say around 900 -1200 rpm (ICE spinning and can supply torque to generator while coming to stop). So, it's likely ICE could cause a slight shake as it shuts down at a complete stop and it may be dependent on torque supplied to generator (goal is to run ICE as much as practicable to get ICE up to temperature for closed loop operation). It's also likely that if HVB needs charged (below a minimum SOC threshold), ICE torque could change as car is slowing down especially under 5 mph when regeneration stops to continue charging HVB. This might result in a greater amount of "shaking'" when ICE shuts down at stop. I have noticed what I believed to be normal shuttering of ICE when I lived in eastern TN for a few years when ECT was well threshold and ambient temperatures were cooler (don't recall what temps maybe under 40F). I attributed this to all parts, mounts and bushings were stiff due to cold temps. In Phoenix where lowest temps in garage might be 50-55F, I don't recall ever noticing this shuddering. 3) Put the Engage display up. Watch the display to see when ICE is supplying power and when EV is supplying power. You should see that once ECT is up to temperature, ICE shuts down, if on, when you back off the accelerator. If you are not up to temp and ICE is on when you first start car, you might see at the first stop, that ICE will stay on when you release accelerator, then when you reach around 5 mph, ICE power might increase and not go to zero until stopped. So, does the shaking happen no matter what the ECT and ambient temperature is? I just came back from a trip to the gym. Both going and coming back, ambient was about 90-95 F. ECT was under 130 F. Both times ICE ran until the first stop just maybe 300 feet. After that ECT was well above 130F, ICE never ran coming to a stop. Also, your plugs should be good for over 100k ICE miles. If plugs were an issue (or other ignition components), you would likely have misfires, DTCs, and maybe CEL.

There should be no clunk when switching from EV mode to ICE and back to EV. But, I doubt it is the transmission. It's more likely engine / transmission mounts or something in the front end suspension / cv joints / maybe steering. What are the inputs to the car when it happens? accelerating, decelerating, braking, uphill, downhill, coasting, cruising, low speed, high speed and so forth? How many miles on car? It sounds perhaps that when there is a change in torque requirements (whether in EV or ICE), you sometimes get a clunk (like one does when a CV joint has failed). Have you had the car serviced recently? If so what did they do?

I never thought about that but given that the sidewall needs to be intact and in contact with rim, the advantage of RTFs diminish significantly for me and thus have virtually no value. If one continually monitors tire pressure, one can easily detect a slight loss of pressure in one tire compared to the other tires and either look for issue (likely nail/screw in tire) or drive to many tire shops who will Check and patch for free. I’ll say it again: FORScan and an OBDII adapter is the best $30 investment one can make if all one does is use it to monitor tire pressure. Some will say: but the TPMS will alert you for low tire pressure. Yes it will, after tire pressure falls 25% below recommend which means PSI in a tire has to fall to about 28-29 psi in our C-Maxes. One might get away with this on short, lower speed trips. But, I don’t want to be driving around Phoenix freeways and interstates at 65 - 80 mph with one tire at 30 psi. Overheating of under inflated tires can result in a tire blowout. My son had a blowout on a Phoenix freeway several weeks after a girl friend told him one tire looks very low and his car had TPMS. Fortunately, he was able to pull off with no issues. “The cause [of a blowout] in fact is most often in underinflation. Insufficient air pressure causes a tire to sag, flexing beyond the shape at which it can properly function to support a vehicle’s load. The tire will then overheat, and its rubber’s bond with the reinforcing layers will soften, weaken, and give.” https://www.tireamerica.com/resource/what-is-a-tire-blowout

In addition, can you feel the car shake (vibrate) or just hear a vibrating noise both when your are stopped and when you are moving? If you hear a noise, can you record the noise and post? Has the level (noise and feel) of the vibration increased after it began or did it happen all of a sudden? How long has this vibration been happening? One day no vibration and next day full vibration? Have you driven the car much after the service in December? What service did they do in December?

One still needs to plug RFTs after removing screw. So, the benefit apparently of an RFT is that you can still drive on it and thus no need to carry spare, patch kit, jack, wrench in car and one Is “safer” (I guess blow out proof). But, I have always been able to “catch” a screw in tire by monitoring tire pressure well before the modern TPMS provides a low tire pressure warning. There was only one time in 1979 when an RFT would have been a benefit: when I hit a pothole in our Accord, bent the rim, and lost all pressure in about 5 seconds at about 35-40 mph. I put the spare on in the rain with the light of a streetlight maybe 150 feet away. I agree they are expensive to me as “insurance” for an unlikely event (one time need in over 55 years of driving/vehicle ownership): assume 40 tire replacements (conservative estimate) on 1,500,000 family driven miles, and an inflation adjusted cost of current cost difference of around $150 a set. So, that would be $6000 current value so I wouldn’t have had to change tire in rain in 1979.? So, the likelihood of it happening again for me might be 6.7 % chance per 100k miles driven. So, the “insurance” cost might be $400 per 100k miles - actually not very much given RFTs could save your life.! I forgot there’s likely a FE hit also which would to the cost.

Thanks. Yes, some reviewers indicated they have seen more tire wear than they expected. Although the price is right with Quick Lane honoring Discount Tire price and the Michelin Rebate, Ford Memorial Day discount, and the Ford new credit card discount totaling $180, I’m going to pass as I doubt i would get 40 k out of them, probably around 30k miles. Drawing a line from 7.14 mm through the green dot would likely reach zero at just over 40 k miles for the CrossClimate. I always buy tires before reaching the 2 mm limit. I will probably buy the AltiMax rt43 again as price wise they are about the same as the CrossClimate but with a lesser General Tire rebate and 5% discount with Discount Tire credit card. Also my tread wear on my OE Michelin E/S tracks your blue line very well. I haven’t skied since 1980 but I do drive to Flagstaff to visit son and also back to the Pittsburgh area in the winter time period but can adjust the driving days to miss bad weather. So, don’t really need them for snow. I have yet to find a tire that “resists” screws. It seems they easily “screw” into all tires.