Battery dead

[Bob999]

It is absolutely right, and yes I am angry. Two brand new Energis, both DOA! Moreover, a simple count of those who have reported dead batteries just on this blog alone numbers in the hundreds. I don't know where you're getting the number 30 from. Do you work for Ford?

 

Remember, I asked for facts, not opinion, judgement, speculation. Tell me how to have a reliable Energi.

 

The number of individuals reporting problems in this thread is a small fraction of the total number of posts.  It appears you are looking at the number of posts and interpreting that number as the number of individuals reporting a problem with their CMAX.

[ArizonaEnergi]

It is absolutely right, and yes I am angry. Two brand new Energis, both DOA! Moreover, a simple count of those who have reported dead batteries just on this blog alone numbers in the hundreds. I don't know where you're getting the number 30 from. Do you work for Ford?

 

Remember, I asked for facts, not opinion, judgement, speculation. Tell me how to have a reliable Energi.

Have you viewed and participated in the poll on those who have had dead batteries?  http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/1294-for-those-who-have-had-12v-battery-problems/?mode=show  Unfortunately it didn't include an entry for those who have not had problems, so it's unclear what the ratio actually is.

 

It would also be useful if you were to describe in detail the two failures you had with the Energi, and what the dealer did to resolve them.  As you can see from the poll, only three Energi users have reported a battery problem.

 

This is a forum BTW, not a blog.

[kbf1kbf1]

Nonesense! Count the number of posts reporting the problem. Notice also the number of views, over 22,000. Why do you suppose so many are viewing the thread? Either they're C-max owners with the same problem which would be a very high percentage of the number of C-Max's sold overall, or they're prospective buyers doing their homework on C-Max's and figuring out that they don't need these problems. What I don't get is why Ford is not doing enough about this problem and why the members of this blog aren't up in arms about it.

[ArizonaEnergi]

Nonesense! Count the number of posts reporting the problem. Notice also the number of views, over 22,000. Why do you suppose so many are viewing the thread? Either they're C-max owners with the same problem which would be a very high percentage of the number of C-Max's sold overall, or they're prospective buyers doing their homework on C-Max's and figuring out that they don't need these problems. What I don't get is why Ford is not doing enough about this problem and why the members of this blog aren't up in arms about it.

I've probably viewed this thread about 200 times myself over the past three months.  I suspect most of the people posting a description of their dead battery event also entered the poll, but some many not have.  Why don't you do a detailed count and report back to the group so we can have some "facts, not opinon"?

 

13,309 C-Max's were sold in 2012, and 13,285 have been sold in 2013 thru April, for a total of 26,584.

Edited May 11, 2013 by ArizonaEnergi

[Bob999]

Nonesense! Count the number of posts reporting the problem. Notice also the number of views, over 22,000. Why do you suppose so many are viewing the thread? Either they're C-max owners with the same problem which would be a very high percentage of the number of C-Max's sold overall, or they're prospective buyers doing their homework on C-Max's and figuring out that they don't need these problems. What I don't get is why Ford is not doing enough about this problem and why the members of this blog aren't up in arms about it.

I have been following this thread for months and have visited it many times--yet I have not had a failure to start.  The number of views of the thread indicates interest in the subject but, in my opinion, doesn't mean everyone viewing has had a problem.

 

As an aside, words like "Nonesense!"  aren't in the dictionary and really don't further a rational conversation.

Edited May 11, 2013 by Bob999

[JAZ]

Ditto, hundreds of visits for me too. OCD

[Riddley]

Me too.  I've never had a charging problem, yet I look at all the threads on the forum.  

 

I certainly understand the frustration, but I can't support the irrational conclusions.

[zhackwyatt]

Have you viewed and participated in the poll on those who have had dead batteries?  http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/1294-for-those-who-have-had-12v-battery-problems/?mode=show  Unfortunately it didn't include an entry for those who have not had problems, so it's unclear what the ratio actually is.

 

It would also be useful if you were to describe in detail the two failures you had with the Energi, and what the dealer did to resolve them.  As you can see from the poll, only three Energi users have reported a battery problem.

 

This is a forum BTW, not a blog.

That is what I was attempting with this one back in the day: http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/569-after-1000-miles-have-you-ever-had-a-problem-with-your-c-max/

[Don O.]

To ceemax71 & others. Since I just had TSB130413 performed on my SE only a couple of days ago, I make short drives & may not drive it for perhaps 3 days, I think I am a candidate for TSB130501. I really appreciate the link to this TSB. Thx ceemax71!

 

I shall call my service mgr. 1st thing on Monday!

[Don O.]

A re-read of my service ticket. I thought they did 13-4-7 and 13-4-13. They did 13-5-1 & 13-4-13. So.........Maybe I am ok, at least I don't need to call the service mgr. about doing 13-5-1.

(perhaps a senior moment on my part.)

[wab]

Nonesense! Count the number of posts reporting the problem. Notice also the number of views, over 22,000. Why do you suppose so many are viewing the thread? Either they're C-max owners with the same problem which would be a very high percentage of the number of C-Max's sold overall, or they're prospective buyers doing their homework on C-Max's and figuring out that they don't need these problems. What I don't get is why Ford is not doing enough about this problem and why the members of this blog aren't up in arms about it.

 

 

Me too.  I've never had a charging problem, yet I look at all the threads on the forum.  

 

I certainly understand the frustration, but I can't support the irrational conclusions.

 

 

Same for me "I look at all the threads on the forum"

But I'll stop if I'm going to be part of a statistic.

[Temp61]

poll from Ohio

 

Just checking on the timing of your dead batteries.  I have had 5 occurrences, each time the battery is dead at the beginning of the day when the car sat overnight.   That suggests to me, at least related to my car, the issue is related to an extended amperage drain from one of the control modules that does not shut down.  The battery is small so any amperage drain could be significant.

 

The latest TSB relates to recharging issue on short trips.  That being the case, logic would point to dead batteries occurring during the day.  All it does is boost the charging voltage which I don't think will solve the issue.

 

Just post a short note if your dead batteries are during the day or overnight.  Thanks

[salman]

poll from Ohio

 

Just checking on the timing of your dead batteries.  I have had 5 occurrences, each time the battery is dead at the beginning of the day when the car sat overnight.   That suggests to me, at least related to my car, the issue is related to an extended amperage drain from one of the control modules that does not shut down.  The battery is small so any amperage drain could be significant.

 

The latest TSB relates to recharging issue on short trips.  That being the case, logic would point to dead batteries occurring during the day.  All it does is boost the charging voltage which I don't think will solve the issue.

 

Just post a short note if your dead batteries are during the day or overnight.  Thanks

 

 

Temp61

 

My two dead 12 volt episodes were also discovered in the morning after not having driven since the previous day. I believe that is the general pattern of reported problems. i cannot think of one account of a mid-day dead battery or a dead battery that occurred within just a couple of hours of the last drive.

 

Your deduction that this pattern suggests a power drain has a lot of logic to it, with the caveat that the battery is always being drained at tiny rate, so that a weakened battery or weakly charged battery could be more prone to being discharged. Still, I strongly suspect that the major problem is a power drain and that any charging issues are secondary.

 

In that vein, I am struck by the fact that no one else on these threads has reported being told by Ford service managers or engineers that there have been problems with water intrusion into electrical connectors, which then cause shorts and power drains.

 

My car had a dead battery last weekend, two days after I got it back from the dealer after the April and May TSBs were performed. The Ford engineers told the service manager to check 5 electrical connectors for water intrusion (details in the thread on Dead 12 volt: water in electrical connectors). Two connectors had water in them. Dealer is waiting to receive a new wiring harness ($800 part) and then will install (1-2 days labor) and then I will get my car back - maybe on  May 20.

 

The engineers say they do not know whether the connectors are defective in design or were damaged in assembly.

 

Clearly the engineers have seen other cases of water in the connectors. That is a reminder that there are people who have been experiencing dead 12 volts who are not posting about here.

Edited May 12, 2013 by salman

[Jus-A-CMax]

salsaguy, thanks for the info, very helpful :rockon: . However, may I suggest you update your post to let the readers know your model & year of the car since I believe its not a CMax. Otherwise someone else will come and say "he's part of the statistics". :)

[Don O.]

Feedback. All 3 of my dead batteries have happened when I haven't driven the CMAX SE for about 3 days...after about 15 mile drives to local stores. It sits in my garage.

[erwhitham]

No dead battery here but in January I left my car at the airport for 8 days. No problem starting. Ten days from now CMax will be left alone for 11 days this time around. Crossing my fingers and hoping I won't be one of the 30 or so posters with battery issues.

Edited May 13, 2013 by erwhitham

[Laurel]

We left our SEL for 9 or 10 days this past winter while on holidays and it started tickety boo.  Hope the same for you erwhitham. 

[kbf1kbf1]

Has anyone who has experienced the dead battery issue ever gotten a permanent fix to the problem, i.e., gotten a fix and thereafter never had the dead battery problem to deal with again? If so, what is the fix?

[salman]

Has anyone who has experienced the dead battery issue ever gotten a permanent fix to the problem, i.e., gotten a fix and thereafter never had the dead battery problem to deal with again? If so, what is the fix?

 

The fixes so far are to change the battery, perform the TSBs related to the 4.2 inch view screen and the DC-DC converter that charges the battery, and also in at least one  case there was a module in the instrument panel that needed to be changed and in my case (and other cases according to Ford engineers) there have been problems with water getting into electrical connectors.

 

No one can say if these fixes work permanently or if they work at all because that can only be tested with time. The latest TSB came out the beginning of May. I only heard about the electrical connector problem last week.

 

Dead 12 volt problems have hit people across a range of timing, from the day they picked up there car to weeks and months later. So if someone gets their car back from the service department after a repair, how long do they need to drive the car before they can say the fix worked? At least a few months if not a year, I'd think.  

Edited May 13, 2013 by salman

[salsaguy]

only 10 official complaints for Cmax for ALL issue types not just dead batteries so...

everyone needs to post their battery complaints here:

www.safercar.gov

then click on the vehicle owners tab at the top

[edited to correct link info]

Edited May 14, 2013 by salsaguy

[Edsel]

Appears to be a bad link.

 

 

only 10 official complaints for Cmax for ALL issue types not just dead batteries so...

everyone needs to post their battery complaints here:

http://www.safercar.gov/Vehicle+Owner

[kbf1kbf1]

salsaguy, click on the link you provided and try again

[Edsel]

I keep getting this.

Sorry, the page you requested could not be found.

It may have moved to a new location. Please click on the tabs above to help find it or go to http://www.safercar.gov

 

 

Anyone else?

 

salsaguy, click on the link you provided and try again

[Bob999]

On the page that appears click on the "Vehicle Owners" bar.  The original link provided is the address of the page but apparently the site does not provide direct access to the owners page.

[salman]

www.safecar.gov is a Federal government website for car safety issues.

 

I might be wrong, but I think safety issues would include things like brake failure, Toyotas that accelerate for no good reason, and Ford Pintos with exploding gas tanks from the 1970s.

 

The CMAX 12 volt issues we are dealing with do not strike me as safety issues. A dead car in the drievway is a pain in the neck, but not a safety hazard. Yes, gettiing stuck in the wrong place at the wrong time could be bad, no doubt, but it is not a road safety issue.

 

I do not think our problems fit the terms of www.safecar.gov

 

If I'm wrong I'd be happy to send details to www.safecar.gov

 

Meanwhile, although I have been frustrated by some of Ford's responses earlier this year, I do not think they are dragging their feet on the problem now. They just have not been able to diagnose and reliably solve it yet.

 

If the problem is getting a car to start, then solutions to that sort of problem can be tested immediately: you try fixing things until the car starts.

 

In our case, it is a durability and reliability issue. The results of any repair can be seen only over a long duration of time. That means as each potential cause of the problem is identified, Ford will try a fix, and then we have to waits days, weeks, months to see if there is another dead battery episode, and if there is another episode Ford goes back to the shop to try again.

 

In my case, after a changed battery and a couple more trips to service for the TSBs, Ford is now replacing a wiring harness that sells for about $800, plus labor, plus car rental again. On top of the warranty service costs they are also fighting the clock on the CMax's reputation. I think they are trying to find a solution.

 

Simultaneously, I am not happy about having to spend so much time at the shop with my new car and not happy about having several days of work and play messed up by the car's reliability issues. If this goes through another round I will consider asking Ford for a buy back when the case meets the criteria set out by State law.