Battery dead

[zhackwyatt]

Had the TSB 13-5-1 installed by the local dealer about 3 weeks ago. CMax SE found dead over the weekend in the garage. Jumped it myself, and notified the local dealer and Ford Customer Service yesterday. This is my third DOA. Here are some interesting occurrences:

 

Each of the dead batteries occurred at my home, battery failed after 12 hours of non-use

After I jumped the battery, I moved the CMax out of the garage into the driveway, shut it down, then immediately re-started it without the jump-pack, no problem starting

Since the TSB update and subsequent battery failure, "My View" doesn't remember my view, keeps switching to 'miles to go and mpg" when I tell it to do otherwise. 

 

Appointment is slated for Monday. Will advised what Ford/Dealer finds...

Did you have TSB 13-04-13 done as well, or do you have MFT?

[ceemax71]

Is there a website with a list of all the TSB's and FSA's for the C-Max?

The only website that lists all TSB's and FSA's for the C-Max is through a paid subscription at http://www.motorcraftservice.com

You can subscribe for $10.95 for 72 hours, $19.95 for a month, or $109.95 for a year (for a single vehicle type and model year).

With a subscription, you enter your VIN and it will show all TSB's and FSA's with detailed service procedures.

The subscription also includes access to the workshop manuals and wiring diagrams.

I did a 1 month subscription to learn more about the inner workings of the C-Max.

 

Another option is this website:  http://www.vrep.fordtechservice.dealerconnection.com/vdirs/oasis/oareq.asp?broadcast=ON&from

This is free and shows all of the recent (one week?) TSB's and FSA's for all Ford models but does not provide any details.

 

If you know the TSB number, you can google it and usually find the complete TSB. 

Google battery "tsb 13-5-1" and you can access the 12 Volt Battery charging improvement TSB  here on Ford's website.

FSA details are only available through the subscription.

[Edsel]

Thanks ceemax71

[salman]

does anybody know if Ford engineers are working on a redesign for the electrical harness?

 

i have the dates on my overnight dead batteries so i'll to go back and try to correlate them with weather conditions the prior day.  

 

According to the service manager I worked with (and he is good, honest, and reported lots of info to me), the harness has an updated design that should keep the connections dry.

 

The test for water in the connectors is simply to unplug them and look for moisture or residue from moisture.

[Edsel]

If this is true it should be a recall.  Just a matter of time before it happens to everyone.

According to the service manager I worked with (and he is good, honest, and reported lots of info to me), the harness has an updated design that should keep the connections dry.

The test for water in the connectors is simply to unplug them and look for moisture or residue from moisture.

[bymaine]

Did you have TSB 13-04-13 done as well, or do you have MFT?

I don't have  MFT in my CMax. Believe I just got the 13-5-1. Thanks

[wrbrooks]

My vehicle is a C-Max SE with package 201A. At 565 miles I also woke up to find the car and battery dead. I jumped it myself instead of calling the helpline because I didn't want a delay and immediately went to the local dealer to schedule the TSB update which was completed in 1 1/2 hours this past Weds. It has only been a couple of days but no further problems. I started thinking (in my ex-programmer head) after reading that this problem almost always happens after the car has parked over night. In the Settings mode of the right display is a parameter called EV+ mode which can be set ON or OFF. According to the manual this controls a GPS identification of frequented destinations that will force your C-Max into EV mode like when you approach your driveway or garage.  This is a longshot but I would like a Ford engineer to define what happens to the 12V battery when this forced EV mode takes place, the high voltage battery is low, the high voltage battery is trying to charge the 12v battery through the converter, and you have a heavy load of accessories running? I will turn my EV+ to OFF until they find the problem.   

[plus 3 golfer]

My vehicle is a C-Max SE with package 201A. At 565 miles I also woke up to find the car and battery dead. I jumped it myself instead of calling the helpline because I didn't want a delay and immediately went to the local dealer to schedule the TSB update which was completed in 1 1/2 hours this past Weds. It has only been a couple of days but no further problems. I started thinking (in my ex-programmer head) after reading that this problem almost always happens after the car has parked over night. In the Settings mode of the right display is a parameter called EV+ mode which can be set ON or OFF. According to the manual this controls a GPS identification of frequented destinations that will force your C-Max into EV mode like when you approach your driveway or garage.  This is a longshot but I would like a Ford engineer to define what happens to the 12V battery when this forced EV mode takes place, the high voltage battery is low, the high voltage battery is trying to charge the 12v battery through the converter, and you have a heavy load of accessories running? I will turn my EV+ to OFF until they find the problem.   

Did you drive through any rain recently??

[zhackwyatt]

I don't have  MFT in my CMax. Believe I just got the 13-5-1. Thanks

Definitely take a look at TSB 13-04-13.

http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/361-battery-dead/?p=16224

[wrbrooks]

Yes drove through rain the last 2 days without any problems.

Did you drive through any rain recently??

[plus 3 golfer]

Yes drove through rain the last 2 days without any problems.

Prior to the dead battery.  

 

I believe the TSB may "mask" the real issue by insuring a more fully charged battery on shutdown. The "real" issue may now take longer to drain the battery and longer to / never cause a "dead battery".  

[Bill-N]

My vehicle is a C-Max SE with package 201A. At 565 miles I also woke up to find the car and battery dead. I jumped it myself instead of calling the helpline because I didn't want a delay and immediately went to the local dealer to schedule the TSB update which was completed in 1 1/2 hours this past Weds. It has only been a couple of days but no further problems. I started thinking (in my ex-programmer head) after reading that this problem almost always happens after the car has parked over night. In the Settings mode of the right display is a parameter called EV+ mode which can be set ON or OFF. According to the manual this controls a GPS identification of frequented destinations that will force your C-Max into EV mode like when you approach your driveway or garage.  This is a longshot but I would like a Ford engineer to define what happens to the 12V battery when this forced EV mode takes place, the high voltage battery is low, the high voltage battery is trying to charge the 12v battery through the converter, and you have a heavy load of accessories running? I will turn my EV+ to OFF until they find the problem.   

 

It operates as one would hope.  I.e. the engine runs and it does not force EV mode.

[fotomoto]

I washed mine with an electric power washer in my driveway but didn't spend a lot of time on the front fascia area as I noted at the time an amazing lack of bugs.  HOWEVER, I also had plugged in an ultra-gauge into the OBD port earlier that morning.  The car was off and I didn't have the FOB with me yet I noticed the gauge which doesn't have its own power supply began search mode.  Even if it continued to search all night, I can't believe the draw from it would drain even a small 12V battery.  

 

The next morning I got in and notice the overhead lights were strobing at a very fast rate and car would not power on (dash completely dark).  Checked voltage at the underhood terminals:  8.7v   Put it on a charger for about an hour at 10amps.  Powered on and drove it to breakfast, left it on with a/c, radio, headlights, and climate all turned off.  Took it back home and left it on the charger at a lower 2amp rate for several hours.  Been fine since and I have also removed the ultra-gauge.  I'm going to wash it again next weekend to see if I can duplicate.  

 

 

Update:  Long story short, I did wash it again three days ago but it was a hand wash.  No issues.

 

 

Update #3:  power washed the car last evening and spent a little extra time on the front fascia for bugs.  No issues this morning, proper voltage.  I'm strongly suspecting my ultra-gauge being the cause of the original drain in my particular case.  I have an SEL with fogs.

[bymaine]

Definitely take a look at TSB 13-04-13.

http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/361-battery-dead/?p=16224

Thanks for the info, I was mistaken, 13-04-13 was done on May 8 with the 13-5-1. I don't have MFT.

 

Just got my CMax back from my dealer, and below is my service report info:

 

My complaint: "Battery dead third time since owned vehicle. First time since tsb performed. Lost Bluetooth, steering wheel buttons left side working intermittently" Included my case number with Ford Customer Service.

 

Dealer: "Unable to verify Customer concern. Performed ECC test, found low batt codes for ABS module. Performed Battery test, passed battery test, performed paracidic draw test, found .010 amp draw, well within spec, may have interm concern drawing on battery, will need to continue testing once response from tech line advises which direction to go in. Was advised by Ford tech line to check connectors, C140, C1812, C1651, C134 for water intrusion - Found no water intrusion in connectors but did find that top of box for PCM is not sealed. Top of box has warped allowing water to enter box and into PCM cavity. Removed Left front Inner fender well to access PCM, removed, found no corrosion in pins for PCM connectors, No water in connectors at this time. 

 

It is raining today, so I am making sure to go thru every possible puddle and let it sit at overnight at the house. So far all 3 failures have been in my driveway/garage. I know for sure last failure was the day after rain, and then sitting over night. Dealer wants me to have the dead CMx towed in and not jumped when it happens again. 

 

Thanks for all your help everyone. Sure would be nice to have this fixed. 

[salsaguy]

good info bymaine. the warped pcm box is something new/not previously reported here before.

[salman]

I had high hopes that water intrusion in the electrical connectors would prove to be the taproot of all the problems. Guess not.

 

Sorry to hear your 12 volt problem remains an unsolved mystery, bymaine. It means we're all back to the drawing board, unless it can be proven that there have been multiple different causes of the battery problems.

 

 

Found no water intrusion . . .

[Monarch59]

Sorry have not been on in a while. The dealer replaced my electric cooling pump on  May 29th.  They said that it had a bad relay in it. They kept it until Monday June 3rd. The car has been running fine for the last week. Their are two different kinds of pumps on the car. Out of the three, two are manual and one is electric. When I get my paper work I will post the part number.

[fotomoto]

Update #3:  power washed the car last evening and spent a little extra time on the front fascia for bugs.  No issues this morning, proper voltage.  I'm strongly suspecting my ultra-gauge being the cause of the original drain in my particular case.  I have an SEL with fogs.

 

Update #4:  Three days ago, I drove through a very strong thunderstorm with heavy rains: lots of standing water on roadways, expressway traffic slowed to 30mph, wipers on max, etc.   No issues next morning.

 

Yesterday, power washed with extra time spent on the fog light/grill areas on purpose.  No issues this morning.

[ScubaDadMiami]

I have the fog lights.  This past weekend, I went to a self car wash that uses the wand type of blaster, and tried not to direct too much spray into the grill.  When done, I did get a yellow engine icon on the first attempt at start.  A moment later, no problem.

[Bill-N]

The only website that lists all TSB's and FSA's for the C-Max is through a paid subscription at http://www.motorcraftservice.com

You can subscribe for $10.95 for 72 hours, $19.95 for a month, or $109.95 for a year (for a single vehicle type and model year).

With a subscription, you enter your VIN and it will show all TSB's and FSA's with detailed service procedures.

The subscription also includes access to the workshop manuals and wiring diagrams.

I did a 1 month subscription to learn more about the inner workings of the C-Max.

 

Another option is this website:  http://www.vrep.fordtechservice.dealerconnection.com/vdirs/oasis/oareq.asp?broadcast=ON&from

This is free and shows all of the recent (one week?) TSB's and FSA's for all Ford models but does not provide any details.

 

Suggest this be pinned.

[Dj07]

Very dissapointed in the Ford C-Max! I have already had it towed to the dealership twice because the battery won't hold it's charge! The battery seems to last about 1 month before it completely dies. Ford had to call the "ford hotline" to figure out why the battery continues to die, only for them to replace the battery, again. If you ask me that's what we call putting a band aid over the real problem. I'm hoping they at least consider this a lemon next time I go in, because I can assure you it will die again because the battery icon on the gauge cluster reads that the battery is low of charge! Should of bought a Prius.

[salsaguy]

i haven't seen this mentioned before on these forums. not charging is a serious issue:

 

6173 - 2013 C-MAX/Fusion Energi With DTCs P0D08 And/or P0D0F
Some 2013 C-MAX and Fusion Energi vehicles may set DTC P0D08 and/or DTC P0D0F and experience no charging. 1) CLEAR the BECM and SOBDM DTCs. 2) Connect to a 120 or 240 volt EVSE. 3) Observe the CPLR for 2 minutes and verify the vehicle is charging. Repeat two more times. 3) Perform self-test on the BECM. If P0D08 or P0D0F return, refer to the workshop manual pinpont tests. If P0D08 or P0D0f do not return, do not perform any additional service actions. A software revision is under development. Monitor OASIS for updates.

[zhackwyatt]

i haven't seen this mentioned before on these forums. not charging is a serious issue:

 

6173 - 2013 C-MAX/Fusion Energi With DTCs P0D08 And/or P0D0F

Some 2013 C-MAX and Fusion Energi vehicles may set DTC P0D08 and/or DTC P0D0F and experience no charging. 1) CLEAR the BECM and SOBDM DTCs. 2) Connect to a 120 or 240 volt EVSE. 3) Observe the CPLR for 2 minutes and verify the vehicle is charging. Repeat two more times. 3) Perform self-test on the BECM. If P0D08 or P0D0F return, refer to the workshop manual pinpont tests. If P0D08 or P0D0f do not return, do not perform any additional service actions. A software revision is under development. Monitor OASIS for updates.

This sounds like it may be for the Energi's and charging the High Voltage battery.

[barrier2entry]

Well, my SE died again this morning for the 4th time in 4 months.  Slightly different behavior this time -- it actually wasn't dead when I got up in the morning and put some stuff inside.  3 hours later, when I was ready to head out, however, same as before: completely dead, no power, no lights, etc.

 

I had had the appropriate TSBs addressed last month.  We did have a bit of rain the last few days...

[Monarch59]

Got my C Max back about two weeks ago. It has been working fine. We are praying that it has been fixed. Right now we are watching the display. It is staying on for a little while after I close the doors.