Battery dead

[drdiesel1]

Thx drdiesel1. Makes sense to do as you suggest.

 

Wab? Yep. Have a 3rd 12V outlet on the passenger side of the car in the hatch area. About where the fuel inlet is located.. Hmmm. :dance:

Per drdiesel1, need to NOT open the car door or hatch in order to use it for a reading OR somethingees will get activated for awhile. :worship:

FIXED!  ;)

Edited October 15, 2013 by drdiesel1

[bam48]

New here, I joined because the battery was dead for the third time this morning and I hoping that soon it'll qualify for a lemon law. The first time in January '13 the car was only 3 weeks old so I just had roadside assistance come and they jumped it. I assumed it was a fluke even though I was positive I'd left nothing on. I wonder if that would be considered a repair attempt. The second time (three weeks ago) I got the firmware fix. I just called roadside assistance and had it towed instead of jumped since my dealer does not give loaners and I'd have no way to get home.

 

I see a few people have referenced starting the "buy back" process which I'm very interested in even though it sounds like my experience has not been as bad as others. C-MAX is a lovely car but for this issue, however I just cannot live with a brand new car that will leave me stranded periodically. Is there any information available on starting this process? In my state I have 12 months (until 12/13/13) and 3 repair attempts to file a claim under the lemon law. Are people taking the lemon law route or is it something you've worked out directly with Ford? Did the consumers have a lawyer involved? Thanks for your help.

 

ETA- I just spoke with the attorney general's office and they clarified for me the the lemon laws apply for the term of the warranty or 1 year, whichever is longer, so I fortunately I have more time than I thought for a resolution.

Sorry to hear about your CMax issues too! We are in the final stages of the buyback process.  We used the Ohio lemon law, it also gives the manufacturer 3 attempts to correct the problem within one year, but we had to wait until the 4th dead battery to proceed.  We dealt directly with Ford and started a case with them after our 2nd dead battery.  The service manager at our dealership helped us out and made some calls to Ford on our behalf. We did not use an attorney because they will not work with you if you bring an attorney into the situation.  Just know you have the lemon law on your side and Ford will follow through with the buyback.  If you want they would probably even upgrade you to another vehicle, if you offered that to them.

 

We do not have the time to toy around with the battery and try to figure out the cause of the dead battery issues, not to mention, we paid for a NEW working vehicle and this is just unacceptable, and should be to any consumer!

 

Good luck with your buyback and if I can help answer any questions, I will be happy to try!

Edited October 16, 2013 by bam48

[drdiesel1]

So after buying my C-Max and finding my 12 volt battery consistently at 50% SOC, I started a quest to monitor it.

The day after I brought it home, it was showing 50%. The car sat on the lot for awhile, so I accepted the reading

as "LOT ROT". It's the term we have for vehicles that sit around for extended periods without use.

 

I charged it and kept an eye on it. It kept dropping to 50% SOC after a week or two. I kept recharging it and started a

daily voltage check. It continued to drop. I tested the battery (it passed) and did the Ford software updates. IT was still

dropping off. I noticed my USB thumb drive was being pinged with the key off.  I unplugged my USB drive and my iPod,

because the iPod is charged by the system. It's been about 3 days and my battery voltage this morning was 12.68 volts.

 

It's never been passed 12.2 before this change. I'm still in the process of monitoring the system, but this shows a change.

I have the Sony audio system with dual USB ports.  If the system is pinging a drive and charging a device (iPod) with the key off, then that means the audio system is keeping itself and other modules online. Modules that are awake use more than the nominal keep alive memory voltage and can lead to a dead battery. A compromised battery will fail  very quickly without notice.

The C-Max doesn't use a conventional starter, so you never notice the battery getting weaker and weaker until it's dead.

 

I'll update this thread as my monitoring continues.  Please check and make sure you don't leave anything plugged into the USB port.

Maybe Ford will change the software to turn off the USB port when the car is shut down ???? I don't know if it's a viable fix yet, but the voltage change is telling me something isn't the same. The USB devices are the only changes I've made.

Eventually, I'll do a parasitic load test to verify my finding.  I won't be returning my car anytime soon. Sorry to hear you can't hold off until a fix has been made for yours. Good luck!

Edited October 16, 2013 by drdiesel1

[Louise]

My 2013 C-Max SE has the exact same repeted dead battery issue. First time the car was found dead it had 1300 miles on it.

At the Ford Service Dept , no issue/problem could be found.  Now it has gone dead mysteriously twice in a week ( now has 11000 mi).  The third time it was found dead it was towed to the Ford Authorized Service Dept without being jump started. It was plugged into the computer and no error messages were found. The car is dead in the service bay and the diagostic computer is showing no  problems.The Ford Co "regional customer service manager" has not returned my calls for over a week. My region is New England.I have found.other C-Max owners in the north east who have taken to carrying jumper boxes in the cars due to the same issue.  The car handles well and I'm satisfied with the milage.  But as a previous poster wrote, if it's unreliable its worthless.

 

Looking into Lemon Laws

[CMax-Traveler]

I've enjoyed joining all of the "clubs" on the forum.  But the "Dead 12v Battery" club is one I didn't want to join.  Unfortunately, I had to have the Ford roadside assistance come and jump my car.

 

So, the car is going into the dealer on Tuesday for a slew of repairs that I've been holding off on.

 

Anyone have a suggestion on an inexpensive portable jump starter?  I feel like I should have one on-hand just in case -- if the jump starter is inexpensive, it's worth it for the peace of mind.

[drdiesel1]

I've enjoyed joining all of the "clubs" on the forum.  But the "Dead 12v Battery" club is one I didn't want to join.  Unfortunately, I had to have the Ford roadside assistance come and jump my car.

 

So, the car is going into the dealer on Tuesday for a slew of repairs that I've been holding off on.

 

Anyone have a suggestion on an inexpensive portable jump starter?  I feel like I should have one on-hand just in case -- if the jump starter is inexpensive, it's worth it for the peace of mind.

Jump starts are a temporary band-aid. Without properly CHARGING the battery you'll have the same problem, again.

Having an undercharged battery will also shorten it's life span.  I use a micro processor battery charger that's fool proof.

I've been using this charger for the last 2 or so years. My wife's battery lasted 8 yrs. to the month in her car.  I do a 6 mo. service charge on all my vehicles to promote battery health and longer life.  I use it on my motorcycles too.  I've been using on my C-Max.

 

The day after I bought my car, I found the battery at a 50% state of charge.  I charged it up and found out my USB drive was being pinged all the time and my iPod was being charged all the time too. I unplugged them both and my battery problems have stopped. I recommend you spend the money on a charger and not a jumper. The charger will condition your battery as well as keeping it charged.  A jumper will only work to start a dead battery and nothing else. If you check and charge the battery on a regular basis until a fix is found, you'll never have a dead battery. Even if you did, the charger will enable you to get enough power to start the car.

 

Here's the one, I use and recommend   http://www.amazon.com/Schumacher-SSC-1500A-SpeedCharge-Charger-Battery/dp/B000H961YI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1382038990&sr=8-1&keywords=ship+n+shore+speed+charge+ssc-1500a

 

Edited October 17, 2013 by drdiesel1

[bam48]

drdiesel1,

 

for those of us who have not used the USB nor own an Ipod that we've "plugged"in (or any mp3 players), what would you suppose the cause of our dead batteries to be?

Edited October 17, 2013 by bam48

[jdbob]

suppose the cause of our dead batteries to be?

 

Microsoft!

[wab]

:lol:       :lol2:

[drdiesel1]

drdiesel1,

 

for those of us who have not used the USB nor own an Ipod that we've "plugged"in (or any mp3 players), what would you suppose the cause of our dead batteries to be?

I'm not sure what it could be. I drive an Energi, so it charges my 12V battery, when I charge the HVB.

 

There's only 1 way that I know of to check for a parasitic load that will cause dead batteries. Otherwise it's a guessing game.

Sometimes a low SOC on a 12V battery is never corrected because no one ever properly charges the 12V battery. This leaves the battery in a low voltage state. It shortens the batteries life too. Never having enough reserve power can cause a sudden dead battery. The vehicles charging system is only designed to maintain the battery. You need

to plug it into a good charger to get it back to a 100% SOC level. I do all my regular vehicles every 6mo. I'll be

charging my Energi every 1 to 2 months or as required to maintain it's 12V battery in the 85% range.

I don't like to see my batteries under a 75% SOC and always maintain them. It's part of regular maintenance, IMO.

 

You never detect the batteries state of charge on a hybrid due to the lack of a conventional starter. When you use the 12V battery to start a conventional ICE, the starter load gives you an idea of how well the 12V battery is, based on starter speed/drag. The hybrid vehicle uses the HVB and MG1 to start the car, so you never see it coming. Most drivers don't understand how their car starts/works, so they're surprised when it happens out of nowhere.

 

It's not out of nowhere, really. It's been there all the time, but it goes unnoticed until it's to late. The 12V battery powers the input request from the start key/button through the BCM and activates the HVB contacts.

Without the 12V power, the BCM can't function.  There is no more 250 amp starter load placed on the the 12V battery to know if it's low. You need to use a meter to know where it's at, or you risk the dead battery syndrome. I know Ford is aware of the this problem and I'm sure they will have a fix, but until then, I would use the charger once a week and make sure my battery stays healthy, properly charged and ready to go :victory:

Edited October 18, 2013 by drdiesel1

[DaveofDurham]

 

 

 The vehicles charging system is only designed to maintain the battery.

 

Could you explain what you mean by "designed to maintain the battery" and how that differs from "designed to fully charge the battery"?

 

Why wouldn't the C-Max, other hybrids and regular (ICE only) cars be designed so that the 12v battery gets fully charged when you drive the car?

[drdiesel1]

Could you explain what you mean by "designed to maintain the battery" and how that differs from "designed to fully charge the battery"?

 

Why wouldn't the C-Max, other hybrids and regular (ICE only) cars be designed so that the 12v battery gets fully charged when you drive the car?

Overcharging would be the main reason.  They should maintain the battery from 75% to 95% on average.

I rarely see batteries above 85% even in new cars.

[DaveofDurham]

Overcharging would be the main reason.  They should maintain the battery from 75% to 95% on average.

I rarely see batteries above 85% even in new cars.

 

Does your "micro processor battery charger" have a feature that detects when the battery is fully charged and then stops charging the battery so there is no overcharging?  If so, couldn't the car have a similar feature to prevent overcharging when the 12v battery is charging during driving?

Edited October 18, 2013 by DaveofDurham

[wab]

Jump starts are a temporary band-aid. Without properly CHARGING the battery you'll have the same problem, again.

Having an undercharged battery will also shorten it's life span.  I use a micro processor battery charger that's fool proof.

I've been using this charger for the last 2 or so years. My wife's battery lasted 8 yrs. to the month in her car.  I do a 6 mo. service charge on all my vehicles to promote battery health and longer life.  I use it on my motorcycles too.  I've been using on my C-Max.

 

The day after I bought my car, I found the battery at a 50% state of charge.  I charged it up and found out my USB drive was being pinged all the time and my iPod was being charged all the time too. I unplugged them both and my battery problems have stopped. I recommend you spend the money on a charger and not a jumper. The charger will condition your battery as well as keeping it charged.  A jumper will only work to start a dead battery and nothing else. If you check and charge the battery on a regular basis until a fix is found, you'll never have a dead battery. Even if you did, the charger will enable you to get enough power to start the car.

 

Here's the one, I use and recommend   http://www.amazon.com/Schumacher-SSC-1500A-SpeedCharge-Charger-Battery/dp/B000H961YI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1382038990&sr=8-1&keywords=ship+n+shore+speed+charge+ssc-1500a

 

 

"I charged it up and found out my USB drive was being pinged all the time and my iPod was being charged all the time too"

 

Drive

 

Might be an Energi issue?

Probably a good idea to check your DTC codes.

Or seek professional help.

Have you had ALL the TSB's preformed?

 

I've been monitoring our usb.

Car turned off while USB playing NO pings.

Car turned off while FM playing NO pings.

Car turned off with entertainment off NO pings

Car locked...etc, etc, etc,....

NO pings till I get back in the car to start the next test.

 

I quite using the ipod a couple of cars ago, toy for the grandkids :play: now.

 

Here's a link to a partial list of Ford DTC codes.

http://www.edgeproducts.com/product_images/customer_support_article-pdf-41.pdf

Maybe one of the

B13XX or U20XX codes?

[DaveofDurham]

I found a link to this chart in the Q&A on the battery charger suggested by drdiesel1 - my apologies if it has already been posted.   I didn't know that it took such small voltage drops to reduce the state of charge by 30, 40, 50, 60 percent.

 

from    http://www.marxrv.com/12volt/voltchart1.gif

[drdiesel1]

 

"I charged it up and found out my USB drive was being pinged all the time and my iPod was being charged all the time too"

 

Drive

 

Might be an Energi issue?

Probably a good idea to check your DTC codes.

Or seek professional help.

Have you had ALL the TSB's preformed?

 

I've been monitoring our usb.

Car turned off while USB playing NO pings.

Car turned off while FM playing NO pings.

Car turned off with entertainment off NO pings

Car locked...etc, etc, etc,....

NO pings till I get back in the car to start the next test.

 

I quite using the ipod a couple of cars ago, toy for the grandkids :play: now.

 

Here's a link to a partial list of Ford DTC codes.

http://www.edgeproducts.com/product_images/customer_support_article-pdf-41.pdf

Maybe one of the

B13XX or U20XX codes?

 

I am a professional :victory:  My USB thumb drive has an LED and I can watch it when the system pings it. It's being pinged all the time. I only assumed the iPod was being charged too.  I never said it was for sure, but I can tell you my voltage readings are staying above 12.6 volts after unplugging both.  I have the Ford IDS and my system is 100% up to date.  I check it for updates when Ford sends me the latest IDS software.  They update the IDS twice a month.  My system has no faults or codes.

Edited October 18, 2013 by drdiesel1

[wab]

I am a professional :victory:  My USB thumb drive has an LED and I can watch it when the system pings it. It's being pinged all the time. I only assumed the iPod was being charged too.  I never said it was for sure, but I can tell you my voltage readings are staying above 12.6 volts after unplugging both.  I have the Ford IDS and my system is 100% up to date.  I check it for updates when Ford sends me the latest IDS software.  They update the IDS twice a month.  My system has no faults or codes.

 

I thought all USB's have an LED, all that I have do???

My Oldest, 512MB (paid BIG $'s for it ) has a blue one.

 

Our C-Max (Hybrid) never pings the USB unless the car is on!

 

Again I suggest you take your Energi to a dealer.

 

"Without knowing what DTC the system is reporting, you can guess and futz with the car all day and get nowhere.  You need to know what code is stored before you can assume what the problem might be. The PCM will store a code based on what it's reading from input data.  That will tell you what system has an issue and you'll need to diagnose it from there.

 

 Guessing won't do anything and could cause you to set a false code. By opening the seal on the fuel filler neck, you'll cause the fuel tank pressure sensor to see the pressure change that shouldn't be taking place and it could very well set a code that the dealer can't duplicate. Then they'll keep the car for testing and waste more time on something you caused.  Keeping your car for longer than needed. 

 

 Just keep tinkering with it. When they keep it for a month and can't find anything wrong, you can complain about it to Ford. 

  Stop monkeying around with something you don't understand."

[jdbob]

I had my battery drained on my Energi and found out that something in the infotainment system was still running when it shouldn't be. I didn't take the time to actually narrow it down before power cycling though. I always have a USB flash drive for music, but while I was on vacation I was also using the bluetooth to use the navigation program on the phone. I didn't shut down off the bluetooth once I got home and my phone isn't usually on when I'm at home. It's possible that the SYNC system gets confused by this and ignores the power off messages from other computers in the car.

 

I did rig up a USB cable with a LED that hangs out of the center console so I can tell when the SYNC system (which runs on the APIM unit) is on to make sure it doesn't stay on once I exit the car. The LED comes on when I open the door to get in, and shuts off about 30 seconds after I get out of the car. I figured this would be more definitive than just looking at the LED on the flash drive, in case it was something else keeping the computer on.

 

So my comment about Microsoft earlier wasn't entirely facetious.

[pjurek99]

Welcome to the BATTERY DEAD club. 

On top of all the MFT/navi/BT/Sound problems - today while being 24/7 on-call - the battery is dead. Calling Ford 24/7 Assistance.

 

Update: the assistance sent a guy in '98 Legacy. He opened the door (in my keyfobs there were no blade "key".

He opened the door, jumpstarted the car and drove off. 

I hot in the car and there was the yellow wrench on the gauge.

Then I automatically pressed the audio button and Shazam! the sound is back. Now the auto-windows-up feature is not functioning.

What will be next???

Edited October 21, 2013 by pjurek99

[Bill-N]

Welcome to the BATTERY DEAD club. 

... (in my keyfobs there were no blade "key".

 

Sorry about the battery.  But at least the missing key is fixable.  Go beat up on the dealer to get you the key(s).

[drdiesel1]

Welcome to the BATTERY DEAD club. 

On top of all the MFT/navi/BT/Sound problems - today while being 24/7 on-call - the battery is dead. Calling Ford 24/7 Assistance.

 

Update: the assistance sent a guy in '98 Legacy. He opened the door (in my keyfobs there were no blade "key".

He opened the door, jumpstarted the car and drove off. 

I hot in the car and there was the yellow wrench on the gauge.

Then I automatically pressed the audio button and Shazam! the sound is back. Now the auto-windows-up feature is not functioning.

What will be next???

You need to charge the battery and retrain the auto window feature on all 4 windows.

[pjurek99]

You need to charge the battery and retrain the auto window feature on all 4 windows.

 

What is the procedure for that? Is it in the manual? Is it related to "Re-learning the bounce-back procedure"?

Edited October 21, 2013 by pjurek99

[drdiesel1]

What is the procedure for that? Is it in the manual? Is it related to "Re-learning the bounce-back procedure"?

Yep!  Turn the power on and push the power window switch down and hold it until the window stops. Continue to hold

the switch for about 2 seconds after it stops. Pull the window switch to raise the window until it closes. Continue to hold

the switch for another 2 seconds after the window closes.  Do this for each window and your auto and pinch mode should

be restored to normal :)

[pjurek99]

Thank you, drdiesel.

[drdiesel1]

Thank you, drdiesel.

Anytime :hat_tip: