Recall 13B07: The Guinea Pig Thread

[GreenChicago]

Okay folks I seriously need to count to 10 before I post! On the rebate, I called the Ford Cust Relationship line, and they confirmed the amount of the settlement, and said they are sending checks out in bulk beginning in September and continuing through October. So don't spend it yet, but if you were an owner on September 6, 201 of a 2013 CMax, you should expect USD$550.00 from Ford within the next 6 weeks. At this rate, I will have to re-invest that in fuel to make up for the lousy mileage I am getting since the "upgrade!"

[wab]

GreenChicago check these refund threads.

 

http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/2921-refund-checks/

 

http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/2780-550-goodwill-payment-relabeling-of-mpg-and-changes-coming-for-2014/?hl=refund

 

http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/2829-recall-13b10-fuel-economy-goodwill-payment/?hl=refund

 

But before doing that you might be more interested in the

“Recall 13B07: The Guinea Pig Thread”

Some people seem neutral about the upgrade some are more than happy (me) and a few are disappointed.

But some of the disappointed ones (JohnnOhio) are happy with the upgrade after is has been correctly installed.

You should take it back to your dealer for a re-install.

 

wab

 

[fbov]

This is the Recall 13B07: The Guinea Pig thread... just page 22. 

 

Frank

[billygoat11]

Green Chicago, it sounds like there is something wrong with your car, I would take it to Ford and get it fixed. Regardless, this is just one more example of people doing poorly with so called upgrade. I am unsure even though some seem to like it there are not more positive comments.

[Mark426]

I had mine done a week ago and it either was not really done or done correctly.  No changes in anything (EV+ or 65mph EV limit), I suspect they didn't do it at all even though the work order ticket says it was accomplished.  Makes me wonder if the headliner recall I also asked for was done.

Edited September 20, 2013 by Mark426

[mbedit]

I just burned my first full tank after getting the fuel Upgrade. I actually went to the same gas station and used the same pump to try and remove as much variability as possible. 

 

My raw results. 43 MPG with 12.38 Gal of gas pumped. The C-Max though was reporting 46.8 MPG and only using 11.33 Gal of gas!

 

Prior to the upgrade, my gas fuel ups were about 1/2 gal off, and now its more than a gallon! I was getting between 40-42 MPG before the upgrade (mixed use), and now it looks like it might be 41-43, which is hardly an improvement. I guess I'll wait to put another tank or two through it to see if the 1 gal offset remains...

 

I was looking closely at the computer info, and the Miles displayed for the Trip info track the odometer reading to the fraction, and MPG computation is a function of the Miles and gallons, so the way my C-Max is measuring fuel burn seems to be messed up.

 

It was under reporting / measuring it prior, and now it seems to be worse!

 

I was ok with a couple MPG offset, though irritated, but 4 MPG is a problem.  Has anyone found that there is some issue that could result in such gross miss-calculation?

 

Culprits I would assume could include;

 

1. Sensor(s)

2. Bad seal on the capless gas tank leading to vapor loss?

3. Incorrect computer algorithms

 

Any one else have any other ideas?

[JAZ]

I consistently get 4 - 8% (with an occasional outlier) underestimate on fuel used, so have learned to live with it.  Annoying, as you said.

[bgs4859]

My car is less than 2 months old, so the 13B07 was done at the dealer before I bought it.  Curious if these things are new with the upgrade?  ...or always been there? 

 

1) car stays in negative split mode through first half of its warm-up cycle.  (it would be nice to charge the battery during this time the ICE is running, rather than producing unneeded extra HP , but there must be reason it does this? Makes for faster warm up cycle?)  

 

2) When looking at the "Empower" display mode, and the car switches from ICE to EV, the display stays white for 5 sec. or so even though it seems the ICE has stopped and it's switched to EV mode.  Can be confusing when trying to feather the right foot for minimum ICE.  Seems to happen more in the first few miles of a trip.

 

[ScubaDadMiami]

Regarding number two, sometimes it takes a little bit for ICE to complete shutdown.  So, you'll see the MPG go up to 60+ but in white for a few seconds while ICE is doing the shutdown.  Is this what you mean? 

 

If so, the reason that you think that ICE has turned off is that it is running quietly while shutting down, however, the white indicates that it is still on.  Once it has shut down, you will see the indicator turn blue.

 

My C-MAX will do this, but usually only does so occasionally, not nearly every time that it is shutting down.

[bgs4859]

Regarding number two, sometimes it takes a little bit for ICE to complete shutdown.  So, you'll see the MPG go up to 60+ but in white for a few seconds while ICE is doing the shutdown.  Is this what you mean? 

 

If so, the reason that you think that ICE has turned off is that it is running quietly while shutting down, however, the white indicates that it is still on.  Once it has shut down, you will see the indicator turn blue.

 

My C-MAX will do this, but usually only does so occasionally, not nearly every time that it is shutting down.

Yes, that's exactly what I was referring to.  Strange that it does this sporadically, could it be that sometimes the transmission is still engaged when the computer tells ICE to shut down and it turns for a few revs?

[ptjones]

I just burned my first full tank after getting the fuel Upgrade. I actually went to the same gas station and used the same pump to try and remove as much variability as possible. 

 

My raw results. 43 MPG with 12.38 Gal of gas pumped. The C-Max though was reporting 46.8 MPG and only using 11.33 Gal of gas!

 

Prior to the upgrade, my gas fuel ups were about 1/2 gal off, and now its more than a gallon! I was getting between 40-42 MPG before the upgrade (mixed use), and now it looks like it might be 41-43, which is hardly an improvement. I guess I'll wait to put another tank or two through it to see if the 1 gal offset remains...

 

I was looking closely at the computer info, and the Miles displayed for the Trip info track the odometer reading to the fraction, and MPG computation is a function of the Miles and gallons, so the way my C-Max is measuring fuel burn seems to be messed up.

 

It was under reporting / measuring it prior, and now it seems to be worse!

 

I was ok with a couple MPG offset, though irritated, but 4 MPG is a problem.  Has anyone found that there is some issue that could result in such gross miss-calculation?

 

Culprits I would assume could include;

 

1. Sensor(s)

2. Bad seal on the capless gas tank leading to vapor loss?

3. Incorrect computer algorithms

 

Any one else have any other ideas?

With many fill ups I often see this and think it has to do with getting better gas mileage at the start and less at the end or vice versa. Sometimes I wondered how accurate fuel pumps are. I talked to a company that works on them and it turns out they are very accurate. On another note most people that have checked their odometer with GPS have found it to be off by 1.015% so gas mileage could be better by a mpg.

 

 

My car is less than 2 months old, so the 13B07 was done at the dealer before I bought it.  Curious if these things are new with the upgrade?  ...or always been there? 

 

1) car stays in negative split mode through first half of its warm-up cycle.  (it would be nice to charge the battery during this time the ICE is running, rather than producing unneeded extra HP , but there must be reason it does this? Makes for faster warm up cycle?)  

 

2) When looking at the "Empower" display mode, and the car switches from ICE to EV, the display stays white for 5 sec. or so even though it seems the ICE has stopped and it's switched to EV mode.  Can be confusing when trying to feather the right foot for minimum ICE.  Seems to happen more in the first few miles of a trip.

 

#1 would help your MPG's from doing a noise dive at the beginning, not sure it makes a difference in the big picture.

Paul

[11StiLimited]

 

My car is less than 2 months old, so the 13B07 was done at the dealer before I bought it.  Curious if these things are new with the upgrade?  ...or always been there? 

 

1) car stays in negative split mode through first half of its warm-up cycle.  (it would be nice to charge the battery during this time the ICE is running, rather than producing unneeded extra HP , but there must be reason it does this? Makes for faster warm up cycle?)  

 

2) When looking at the "Empower" display mode, and the car switches from ICE to EV, the display stays white for 5 sec. or so even though it seems the ICE has stopped and it's switched to EV mode.  Can be confusing when trying to feather the right foot for minimum ICE.  Seems to happen more in the first few miles of a trip.

 

On #1

 

I think some of us refer to this as "battery run down".  ptjones is probably right with the "why" part of it.  When I leave my house in the morning, I have to climb a big hill right off the bat.  It is a 30 mph road with people routinely speeding down the hill from my left at 45-50 mph, so that extra hp comes in useful for me some days.  Without it, my daily mpg avg would certainly dive if my cold ICE engine had to do all the work.

[bgs4859]

On #1

 

I think some of us refer to this as "battery run down".  ptjones is probably right with the "why" part of it.  When I leave my house in the morning, I have to climb a big hill right off the bat.  It is a 30 mph road with people routinely speeding down the hill from my left at 45-50 mph, so that extra hp comes in useful for me some days.  Without it, my daily mpg avg would certainly dive if my cold ICE engine had to do all the work.

For me, when I leave home I start out on a flat, 25mph street for a bit. There's plenty of ICE HP  to handle it + charge the batt. ... so the reason is the computer is programmed not to charge the batt. when cold because the charging process won't work properly at low temp?

[Edsel]

For me, when I leave home I start out on a flat, 25mph street for a bit. There's plenty of ICE HP  to handle it + charge the batt. ... so the reason is the computer is programmed not to charge the batt. when cold because the charging process won't work properly at low temp?

 

I don't no why it does this, but someone on this forum told me how to prevent it.  Start out in low for a few seconds when first taking off. It will switch to charge and you can put it back in drive.

[11StiLimited]

I always thought that Ford thought it was a good idea to discharge the batteries before re-loading them again.  Truthfully, though, I have no idea why.

[Edsel]

I always thought that Ford thought it was a good idea to discharge the batteries before re-loading them again.  Truthfully, though, I have no idea why.

 

Maybe someone doing that twitter thing can ask them, or is that over already?

[GaryM]

I am at 7500 miles on my C-Max Hybrid. It has not been to the dealer since I picked it up, but I now have the recall items and the Sync update, and now my CD won't eject, so I figured it was time to get it in. 7,500 miles on the factory oil fill also seems high to me, so I will probably have them just go ahead and do the normal service while it is in. Here is the problem, WOW, next appointment for the 13B07 recall, Oct. 25. Nearly a full month away. Seems Galpin only has a few certified hybrid techs on staff to do this. They will call me if an opening comes up, but I will not be holding my breath. I bought from Galpin as one of the largest Ford dealers, but along with that comes the fact they also have to service a ton more cars than most dealers around. So no F.E. update for me for another month.

[GDPirie]

I had 13A01, 13B07, 13C02 and 13B06 done today.  Car was in at 7:30AM and done by 1:30PM.  I don't notice any earth shaking disappointments in performance.  The ICE seems to run less often, but at a little higher RPM and the HV battery charge is quicker.  The cars drops into EV mode quicker and uses the battery more.  So far I am pleased with all of the upgrades.  The main difference in 13B07 that I notice is a trade for a little higher ICE RPM and faster battery charging allows more miles on the battery.  I like the 13A01 display better also.  My SEL build date was 8/28/2012 and these are the first updates installed.

[ptjones]

Maybe someone doing that twitter thing can ask them, or is that over already?

Tweeter was a waist of time.  Paul

[hybridbear]

On #1

 

I think some of us refer to this as "battery run down".  ptjones is probably right with the "why" part of it.  When I leave my house in the morning, I have to climb a big hill right off the bat.  It is a 30 mph road with people routinely speeding down the hill from my left at 45-50 mph, so that extra hp comes in useful for me some days.  Without it, my daily mpg avg would certainly dive if my cold ICE engine had to do all the work.

 

I don't no why it does this, but someone on this forum told me how to prevent it.  Start out in low for a few seconds when first taking off. It will switch to charge and you can put it back in drive.

 

For me, when I leave home I start out on a flat, 25mph street for a bit. There's plenty of ICE HP  to handle it + charge the batt. ... so the reason is the computer is programmed not to charge the batt. when cold because the charging process won't work properly at low temp?

 

You're right about avoiding it by shifting momentarily into L and then back to D. This mode exists for EPA emissions testing. All vehicles start off in Open Loop and in the case of the hybrids the can keeps the ICE running rich at a low RPM when cold to warm up the catalytic converter components. This mode is very bad for fuel economy. It is designed to reduce pollution by limiting the pollutants flowing through the cold emissions components. But it also slows down their warm up and means that the ICE has to run longer before it can shut off the first time which burns more gas and creates more pollution...

 

I was trying to put a link here to the FFH Forum thread about this but the server is down. You can go to www.fordfusionhybridforum.com and under the "General Powertrain" section there is a pinned thread about the warm up stages.

 

Here is the link directly to that topic: http://fordfusionhybridforum.com/topic/7408-ffh-warm-up-stages/

Edited September 30, 2013 by hybridbear

[ERPriest]

New member question:

 

I just purchased my C-Max Hybrid early last month, and am loving it and getting pretty decent MPG from the get go (about 46.5).  I see that I need to update my sync software to v3.6.2, but am unable to see if the 13B07 update came with the car or not.  How do I tell if this has already been installed or not?

 

Thanks, Ed

[fbov]

Welcome!

 

Etis is your friend. Click "vehicle"  in the top line menu and enter your VIN. Tells you all the recalls under Outstanding Field Service Actions. There are posts on here about most of them. You can also tell by the EPA mileage rating on your Monroney label... and you'll know what to look for by reading here! 

 

HAve fun,

Frank

Edited October 4, 2013 by fbov

[Jus-A-CMax]

New member question:

 

I just purchased my C-Max Hybrid early last month, and am loving it and getting pretty decent MPG from the get go (about 46.5).  I see that I need to update my sync software to v3.6.2, but am unable to see if the 13B07 update came with the car or not.  How do I tell if this has already been installed or not?

 

Thanks, Ed

 

Welcome as well :). Easiest way to see if you have the 13b07 is to take the car > 65mph and see if EV comes on while the speed is above the range. 13b07 introduced EV all the way UP TO 85mph....you'll NEVER see that in a competitor hybrid.  :)

[ERPriest]

Welcome!

 

Etis is your friend. Click "vehicle"  in the top line menu and enter your VIN. Tells you all the recalls under Outstanding Field Service Actions. There are posts on here about most of them. You can also tell by the EPA mileage rating on your Monroney label... and you'll know what to look for by reading here! 

 

HAve fun,

Frank

 

 

I just checked that site and there appear to be no "outstanding field service actions" listed, which I presume means that it already came 13B07 upgrade.  Thanks.

 

Welcome as well :). Easiest way to see if you have the 13b07 is to take the car > 65mph and see if EV comes on while the speed is above the range. 13b07 introduced EV all the way UP TO 85mph....you'll NEVER see that in a competitor hybrid.  :)

 

Believe it or not, I have yet to take it on the expressway, but will do so soon.  I am really liking this car. Thanks also. 

[ceemax71]

New member question:

 

I just purchased my C-Max Hybrid early last month, and am loving it and getting pretty decent MPG from the get go (about 46.5).  I see that I need to update my sync software to v3.6.2, but am unable to see if the 13B07 update came with the car or not.  How do I tell if this has already been installed or not?

 

Thanks, Ed

If it was built after July 8, 2013, it already has the 13B07 update.  If it was built before that date, recall 13B07 will show up on Etis if it has not been updated, yet.