plus 3 golfer

Yep, doesn’t matter what battery you have, if there is a parasitic drain. The C-Max Hybrid charging algorithm makes sense for an EFB but not so much for a standard flooded battery. Also, The 100 month prorated warranty on the BXT Max makes sense now since heat has less effect on EFBs. So, perhaps the drain is gone for good as car charged on the tender. Maybe give the car another few months?? :stirpot:

Xxx

I have been doing some digging on the BXT line of Motorcraft batteries which are made by Johnson Controls. It appears that the BXTs are likely an Enhanced Flooded Battery. The EFBs are a battery design between a standard flooded battery and an AGM battery. They are designed to operate at low state of charge and have cycling capability (primarily for ICE start / stop applications) like my mini cycling theory in a previous post. They have systems that reduce acid stratification with normal car movement. Stratification increases sulfation and battery failure. By reducing sulfation, an EFB does not have to be fully charged periodically like a flooded battery. I believe the C-Max battery is an EFB and thus Ford has designed the charging algorithm as I’ve seen and discussed for an EFB. This charging philosophy has benefit especially for the Energi in saving fuel since when plugged in the Energi 12V battery can be fully charged with AC wall power. Attached are snips describing an EFB. If the BXT is an EFB, we need to shift our thinking from a flooded battery to an EFB.

1) What I'm saying is that perhaps it wasn't a "hard" failure (completely dead module) until the 12 V battery was drained overnight and then recharged by dealer. You could pull the appropriate fuses for the APIM and see it you get a dead 12 V battery again. 2) No, not the battery tender but the charger used when you referenced your Fusion Energi when it is plugged-in. Just wanted to indicate (in case people are not aware) that with respect to charging the 12 V battery to 100% when an Energi is plugged in, the DC/DC converter is not used in charging the Energi but a charger in one of the HVB modules (iirc, the SOBDII aka the battery control module) is used. The DCDC converter slow charges the 12 V battery and the PCM uses the BMS data in establishing and regulating the set point charging voltage. I believe the SOBDII gets the initial set point charging voltage according to the service manual from the PCM but don’t know what happens after that. Perhaps the SOBDII simply maintains that set point voltage throughout and thus would charge faster than the DCDC converter. 3) No, the battery when the car is on is "not working". It is being charged and not supplying load. Again, it's the 12 V battery charging algorithm that limits the amount of charging - that's the way it works even if you drive for several hours. I posted a link in a previous post that has a graph showing the charging of the 12 V battery by the DCDC converter. A previous poster in this thread also validated this. “I tried to charge the battery by letting the engine run. In an hour it improved the SOC from 17% to 20%. So trying to use the car to recharge an old battery is a waste of time and money.” SOC is measured as a % of the new battery capacity in Ah (not based on voltage). The SOC for a battery that's lost capacity can never be charged to 100% SOC. Also, normal sleep load alone could drain the battery as much as 8 Ah in a week (50 mA x 168 hours) or a drop of around 18 % SOC. So, if the car is driven just a few times a week for few hours a week, it’s likely the SOC will continue to decline week over week. At a charge rate of 3% per hour, it would take 6 one hour trips per week to likely ensure the battery would maintain its SOC. However, driving 18 short trips of around 10 minutes per trip for about 3 hours total time will also likely maintain the SOC. See the link in a previous post of mine for a graph showing how the charging current starts above 10 A and drops rather quickly to under 1 A and continues to drop. 4) For my 53 month old battery, my guess is that upper 50% SOC (say about 24 Ah of the 43 Ah new capacity) represents the 80% absorption state threshold and takes about 6 hours to reach (very consistent with the 3% SOC per first hour charge rate and declining charge rates in subsequent hours). This is normal charging not fast charging (which is not good for lead acid batteries). Because your son's hybrid is not driven for many hours, the SOC may fall to a lower level over several weeks / a few months due to normal sleep drain even though the battery is fairly new. Whether the SOC is 10%, 20%, 40% or higher depends on number of times and duration of times the car is on vs how many hours the car is off with sleep load draining the battery in a certain time period. As the battery ages it will lose capacity. In my case , my 53 month old battery likely has lost about 10 - 13 Ah of capacity. So, my maximum SOC would be around 75% SOC. The PCM will likely enable charging to about 70-80% of the Ah capacity of a battery or 21 - 24 Ah (80% x 30Ah) in about 4-6 hours. 30 months ago, I drove about 29 hours in 3 days (about 6 stops / car off) and my SOC reached 92% and with float charge current around 0.02 A. So, my battery in it’s first 23 months lost about 8% SOC or 3.4 Ah of capacity. In the last 30 months, I likely lost another 7-10 Ah since we moved back to Phoenix. For the first 23 months my SOC was generally in the 10 - 20 SOC range. With regards to battery health, my battery was tested by Ford last week. It passed with “flying” colors with the printout showing well into the good range. I can only speculate. What kills lead acid batteries is allowing the sulfate deposits which naturally collect on the plates as the battery is discharged to crystallize. Charging removes the deposits. So perhaps, the chemistry is such that a slow drop in SOC with continual charging / discharging (lets call it mini cycling) prevents crystals from forming. We know that greater DOD reduces cycle life but that’s from full Ah capacity to a low Ah capacity. But Ford apparently is only cycling the battery via its charging algorithm maybe 3% in a normal on / off charging / discharge cycle in my case. A lot of members have reported their voltage readings in the very low 12.0 volts which represents a low SOC and their batteries don’t die. Bottom line 10-20 % SOC appears OK.

The service manual for both U0184 and U0256 indicate that the testing involves wiring and connector checks for seating and corrosion and so forth. Also, if you clear the codes with FORScan and restart the car and the codes are still present after wiring and connection checks are OK, the SM says replace ACM for U0184 and replace FCIM for U0256. This is likely why the dealer recommended replacing the ACM. Have you done the self tests on the modules via FORScan? I know there is one for the APIM and maybe the others. Fuse 79 provides power to the ACM and FCIM. Fuse 67 provides power to the APIM, GPSM and the FCDIM.

Again APIM has been known to cause parasitic drain. Perhaps, APIM finally had a “hard” failure and hence no drain. I believe when you plug-in, the charging algorithm is not the same as when the car is driven. IIRC, it’s also not the DC/DC normal HVB DC to 12 V DC charger but an AC to DC charger to use AC wall power not the HVB as the charging source. Also, as I said (from monitoring my 12 V battery charging), the normal DCDC charging algorithm will not maintain a higher charge level unless you drive it about one hour a day give or take depending on Ah losses and current SOC. About once sometimes twice a week, we drive 1 1/2 to 2 hours round trips and maybe 4-8 drives each week of less than 1/2 hour. This maintains my 53 month old battery in the mid 40% SOC. If I don’t do the longer trips, my SOC will fall into the high 30% and likely lower with no longer trips. If I drive to Flagstaff from Phoenix in a week (about 6 hours round trip), SOC will be in the upper 50% when I return. I believe if your drain has “disappeared”, the 12 V battery will be fine being driven as your son drives it. The SOC will likely be around the 10 - 20% range and only increase significantly when you plug it in. How can there be no Ford warranty on a replaced Ford part? Are electronics warranties excluded or is the replacement a refurbished part (part pulled from wrecked car and reprogrammed by dealer)?

Each seat has its own control module, rotary switch, heating pads, temperature sensors. Thus, it's unlikely that one of these components are bad in each seat. The heater rotary switch lighting is on a separate circuit controlled by the BCM and thus has nothing to do with the switches, control modules, heating elements. So,you want to make sure voltage is getting to the positive wires which are going to each control module. Turn car on. Measure the voltage to ground on both side of F85, F35 and F34. If the fuses are OK, you will get around 14 V on both sides of the fuse. Note on the wiring diagrams below that F34 and F35 are in the rear junction box. Open liftback and raise lid for the storage compartment. On the lower left side wall is a panel that lifts off to expose the fuses. The only other common element of both control modules is the grounding of the modules. Now it's a matter of working underneath the seats (push seats as far back and up as the seats will go. Make sure all connectors are connected. If so, one must now check that the grounds and voltages are OK on the connectors shown on the wiring diagrams and also that the heating pads are not open (infinite resistance). Attached are the wiring diagrams.

What do you mean by “a trickle charger set up”. A typical trickle charger output will likely not be able to maintain the battery in ACC mode. The current draw of the car will likely be more than the trickle charger can supply. I would make sure the kit wired from the towing vehicle to your C-Max can provide at least 15 A.

Do an internet search “APIM dead battery drain”. Owners of many Ford products have had the dead battery issue when experiencing problems with Sync 2 APIM. Coincidence? I highly doubt it.

I'll bet the APIM is the current drain. It's been known to be the source of high current drain. You can replace the APIM yourself with a used one. There are videos on-line that show how to remove / install and to program with FORScan if the APIM isn't from a C-Max. You can probably DIY for a few hundred $$ including buying a OBDII Elm327 adapter and the FORScan app that allows programming (IIRC, windows free version with free extended license for a couple months). You can also buy a used APIM from companies that will program it for your VIN but at about 2X+ the cost of a used one. Also, perhaps a shop that does car audio can do the install for a lot less than $500. https://www.flvpmods.com/apim-replacement.html

Nice write up. With SnowStorm's, Stratosurfer's, and your posts on replacing the transmission, others will have great blueprints to follow should their transmission fail.

Does he get a liftgate ajar message when this happens? There is a lift gate ajar switch (contact) that lets the BCM know whether the liftgate is open or closed. It's part of the latching mechanism. It's possible that the liftgate ajar switch is faulty and intermittently tells the BCM that the liftgate is open when it is closed when the car is off. This will certainly trigger higher activity in the BCM and higher current drain. Below is a TSB. TSB12-12-06.pdf

The service manual says it’s a 3 stage charger. 0-85% bulk, 85-100% absorption, and then float. So, assuming charger and “new” battery are good, the car likely has a battery drain that affects charging time / max. SOC. I believe I read somewhere that Ford has a tool that can help locate the device / module with the current drain (maybe fused circuit with drain). But the root cause like wire chafing can be very difficult to find. Hope dealer can find the issue as I couldn’t “live” with the dead battery / no start issue.

Where are you getting the 80% from? What is the make and model of your charger? I assume your battery is being charged in your vehicle and that the charger / tender has at least 2 states: a bulk charge state that generally charges to 80% SOC at a constant current (1.25 A) and a float state. So, no matter how long you leave the charger connected, the SOC will be around 80% in a 2 stage charger. In a three state charger, after the bulk charge state, there in an absorption state where voltage is held constant and the current decreases from the nominal bulk rate current which in this case is 1.25 A as SOC increases for the last 20 % SOC. There is a variable battery drain that the charger is supplying in the absorption stage but it doesn’t know how much the drain is. So, at some point, the SOC should reach a steady state SOC as the charger current equals the current drain. For normal drain < 50mA, the SOC will likely be close to the 100%. But what happens if the drain is 500 mA? How high can SOC reach? After I turn off my car, if I only scan the BCM with FORScan, I can continue monitoring / recording battery voltage and current. I see battery current drains initially around 10 A declining to 3-4 A after several minutes as modules are going to sleep.

A new C-Max BXT67R battery is rated at 43 Ah. 18 h * 1.25 A = 22.5 Ah input from tender at battery terminals. Assume 50 mA normal battery drain. Ah drain = 18 h * 0.05 = 0.9 Ah Assume Battery efficiency = 85%. Ah battery charge capacity increase = 85% * (22.5 - 0.9) = 18.4 Ah . SOC increase = 18.4/43 = 42% So, by putting the battery on the 1.25 A tender for 18 hours, the SOC should have increased by around 42%. What if your battery drain is 10 times the 50 mA drain or 0.5 A. The SOC increase will be significantly less. The tender would only be putting 0.75 A into the battery and the SOC would only increase by 27%. My guess is that you’ve got a large battery drain in the APIM or other modules associated with the entertainment system. Perhaps have your son pull the fuses associated with the system when he shuts the car off. There are probably several that could pulled including Fuse 79 under the glove box.

The 61 months is the HVB age. The 12 V battery age is in days. A fully charged battery will not read 13.3 V. 100% SOC will yield around 12.6 - 12.7 volts open circuit after the battery sets for an hour or so. The dealer did not (cannot ) fully charge the battery in one hour. Also, if the 12 V BXT67R battery is 61 months old (assume the original battery and virtually the same age as the HVB), I would expect a 5+ year old battery to have lost a significant portion of its new rating of 43 Ah. Actual SOC is measured based on the 43 Ah new battery rating. Also, I believe by definition 10.5 V = 0% SOC (although I don't know what Ford uses) even though there is likely sufficient charge at 10.5 V to start the C-Max because there is no starter as in a conventional car. All that needs powered up are the control modules. Look at this discharge curve link. When you measure you battery voltage there is current drain on the battery. Opening the door will cause a spike in the current as modules become active. So, when reading the curve, I'd look at the C/100 to C/20 curve. Your voltage reading of a little less than 12 V between those curves would likely correspond to a SOC between around 10-20%. With respect to the low battery voltage trouble codes, 10.5 V is the general trigger to set a DTC for low battery voltage in a module even though modules can and do operate below 10.5 V. The 12 V Battery Monitoring System uses a BMS sensor to measure current into and out of the 12 V battery and the algorithm integrates the current (coulomb counting) over time for several operating states. Basically the accumulated difference in Ah into and Ah out of the battery is an estimate of the loss es of the 12 V battery capacity. So the BMS (nothing to do with ForScan), has accumulated battery losses based on the original new battery and the aged battery of over 1800 days. Did the dealer remove the battery to test and charge? My guess is yes as the procedure is to inspect the battery terminals, wiring and so forth before charging and running the discharge test requires disconnecting the battery cables from the battery terminals to determine battery health. If so, the BMS algorithm did not record the charging current or Ah of charge the dealer put in. I believe that most BMS periodically, gradually adjusts the SOC estimation from the coulomb counting based on voltage checks to account for estimation drift. So, the adjustment will likely be in small increments over a longer period of time. Thus, as I've said many times, the PCM then use these losses in establishing the charging regime. Hence, unless you drive for hours at a time, the SOC will continue to fall from the 20% reading after the external charging. I've documented exactly what your are seeing. I have never seen the PCM provide an initial set point charging voltage above 14.8 V. The PCM will then continually lower the set point voltage as the SOC increases to what the PCM estimates is the current maximum Ah capacity. So, because the internal resistance of an aged battery is higher than a new battery, there will be less charging current at these voltages. Also, one does not want to subject a lead acid battery to continual overcharging by applying higher voltages say 15.5V to "force" more current into the battery to increase SOC faster. Bottom line: there is nothing wrong with what you are experiencing. It is normal as the battery ages. What is important though is that when a new battery is put in that the BMS be reset. ForScan can reset the BMS which zeros out the battery age and the accumulated losses. So, the PCM now assumes the Ah capacity of the 12 V battery is at 43 Ah.

Maybe a year ago I stopped using packing tape to hold the handle in place because I’d have to redo the taping every several months as the tape would pull away from the 90* angle made where the handle meets the lift back body making the handle somewhat loose again. So, I decided to use epoxy to hold the handle tight against the body. With the lift back fully open, I liberally applied epoxy along the joint opening making sure plenty flowed under the handle. I then applied tape over the handle to the body to hold the handle tight against the body. After the epoxy hardened, I removed the tape. After 6+ months the epoxy is still holding. The negative is that epoxy will seep out prior to setting and turns yellow with age and on a white body is very noticeable. I was able to use a razor blade to peel / cut most away. If I have to do it again, I’ll apply tape to within say 1/16” inch of the joint and then epoxy. So, then once the epoxy is set (not fully cured), I’d remove the tape.

I thought the specs for the 2020 Escape Hybrid showed a pump and a sealant kit not a spare tire.

XXX

The transmission failed before the leak. The mechanical breakdown was a bearing in the transmission. The leak did not cause the failure. The leak was caused by the transfer shaft moving because of the bearing failure. The moving transfer shaft then bored a hole through the transmission case allowing some oil to leak out. You might need to hire an attorney to help in your case. The dealer might also be some help in documenting the chain of events that would create the leak. What is your recourse per the warranty contract in resolving disputes? I believe you would win in arbitration or if you would file suit. The original transmission has a 8 yr, 100 k mile warranty on the transmission. The dealer knows whether the transmission was replaced prior. If it was replaced under warranty, IIRC, the balance of the original warranty applies. If the owner paid for the new transmission, IIRC, the greater of 24 months or balance of factory warranty. Look up Ford’s parts warranty. One last point, you can source a used transmission and find a shop to install (perhaps even dealer at reasonable cost) for around $2500-$3000. Two members, snowstorm and stratosurfer, recently did it.

Batteries do fail. Did you have to pull fuse 79 to reset audio? Can you measure your battery voltage in the morning before you start car? If you have a mechanical issue with suspension / brakes, dealer should easily find it.

I'd get the 12 V battery checked first. Low battery voltage can cause all sorts of issues. The fact that the car sat two days and wouldn't start and your MFT turns off in minutes indicates a very low state of charge of your 12 V battery. Critical modules like PCM, TCM, ABS can operate at very low voltages. For example, many ABS monitors run as long as voltage is above 8.3 V and ABS module control voltage threshold is 9.0 V. Most of the monitors of ICE operations have a minimum threshold voltage of 11.0 V. Most of HyBrid Power Control monitors can function down to 6.0 V. So, if voltage is too low, many sensors could be giving incorrect data and monitors may not be running.

There are no codes associated with BMS reset. What does the scanner show for the state of charge of your 12V battery and the age of the 12 V battery (will be in days)?m

Our 12 V battery is in the rear not in the engine bay. Virtually, no one need to run wires from engine bay into cabin. NA C-Max hybrids have 3 fuse blocks: in the engine bay; under the glove box and in the rear left sidewall area. Find your fuse block in the cabin. You can then use a fuse tap to get positive and run wire to rear amp.

I have a cheap WIFI clone adapter (purchased 8/2013) which I used on an old IPhone and use with new IPad Pro, an OBDLink MX Bluetooth (JR Tech 8/2018) for my android smartphone and MS Surface Pro. The MX will not work with IOS. I also have a cheap Bluetooth clone adapter (BAFX 2/2015). The cheaper clones will lose connection occasionally which if recording data, means you lose the recorded data. I bought the MX BT for its speed and ability to automatically scan modules on MS and HS CAN. I’ve never lost connection with the MX.